Awlgrip - Where did I go wrong?

[Training Wheels]

I know ventura county sells most Awlgrip products as well, but you can get stuff in SB that you can't get in Ventura.


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[HopCar]

I ran into this years ago when I first started selling Awl Grip. Drove us crazy trying to figure it out. Acetone is the problem. It leaves a residue that Awl Grip doesn't like. Switch to Denatured Alcohol or Awl Grip T0008 and the fish eyes will go away.

[Wind River]

Originally Posted by Zach

To my eye, it looks like the area beside your white paint has not been sanded.

Epoxy hazes over cloudy once it is sanded, such that it goes opaque... You might be using sandpaper that loses its grit very easily, or old sand-paper that is worn out.

I think you might want to get some 3M sand paper, and put it on a vibrating sander, sanding until you have an even scratch pattern all the way around.

In other words, rather than a materials problem... you may just have some areas that are slick as snot epoxy, and not enough tooth for the paint to lay out.

Cheers,

Zach

I definitely sanded but you may be right about the "tooth" the sanding left behind. I thought it seems pretty smooth but I also remember hearing about just using scotch-brite pads between coats and if that was enough between coats I figured my sanding should be good. Maybe not.....

[Wind River]

Originally Posted by HopCar

I ran into this years ago when I first started selling Awl Grip. Drove us crazy trying to figure it out. Acetone is the problem. It leaves a residue that Awl Grip doesn't like. Switch to Denatured Alcohol or Awl Grip T0008 and the fish eyes will go away.

I actually tried this on a different spot before I dumped my paint. It did make a difference but still fish eyed. So I believe you are right to use the Denatured Alcohol instead of Acetone. There has to be a combination of problems here.

[Wind River]

I have read so much information between Awlgrip and Awlwood in the past months that it "Awl" runs togother.

This is where I found the household cleanser idea:
Surface Preparation and Priming - Fiberglass/Gelcoat

"Raw laminating resin is very hard and slick compared to pigmented gelcoats and fairing compounds.

Both polyester and epoxy resins must be washed with household cleanser and water before sanding or grinding. Washing removes mold release materials, un-reacted styrene on polyester surfaces and amine residue on epoxy resins.

Raw fiberglass resin must be ground with 36–60 grit paper until 100% of the surface is dull, with a 36–60 grit surface profile. Allowing even small spots of un-sanded resin in the weave of the fiber strands can lead to adhesion failures.

Fiberglass repairs often have an extra layer of laminating resin applied to give the repair a smoother finish. This allows easy sanding without exposing the fiberglass itself.

Even though these areas may appear fair and true it is important to give them the full 36–60 grit grind to ensure good adhesion of the coating system."


This also give merit to Zach's idea that the surface may be too slick. I thought I remember reading not to use sanding grits heavier than 120 grit, but this is suggesting 36-60 grit.

So, I guess it's time for a cleanser scrub down, a wash with ammonia and water, heavier sanding grit, a two rag wipe with Denatured Alcohol and two coats of 545 primer that I should be able to get in San Diego County. I will confirm that I can buy it there before I drive 90 miles one way to get there.

[sean9c]

Your problem was not caused by not priming with 545. You can prime if you like but prepped correctly Awlgrip can go right over WS epoxy. You're going to spend a lot of money on 545. From your description of your prep I guess it's remotely possible that amine blush is the problem though my guess would be that you've introduced a contaminant another way. My top 2 guesses would be that you blew your part off with compressed air from a compressor that has oil in its air or your rags have something on them. Likely your rags. I have also seen guys get in trouble by scrubbing their part with a tack rag. The stuff that makes tack rags sticky rubbed off on the part. Lightly wipe your part.
You're going to have to sand that coat off. Just keep things clean, sand down to about 280 grit, if you're going to roll use a foam roller, and you should be good to go.

[cruisersfarm]

Sean 9c has it right.

You are contaminated, likely by oil

Something I've done that worked perfectly is to give anything I'm painting a good wash down with Dawn dish detergent and water prior to your acetone wipe.

Removes all oil. Even your hand can leave oil from your skin.

I've never, ever had a fish eye.

[Wind River]

Originally Posted by sean9c

Your problem was not caused by not priming with 545. You can prime if you like but prepped correctly Awlgrip can go right over WS epoxy. You're going to spend a lot of money on 545. From your description of your prep I guess it's remotely possible that amine blush is the problem though my guess would be that you've introduced a contaminant another way. My top 2 guesses would be that you blew your part off with compressed air from a compressor that has oil in its air or your rags have something on them. Likely your rags. I have also seen guys get in trouble by scrubbing their part with a tack rag. The stuff that makes tack rags sticky rubbed off on the part. Lightly wipe your part.
You're going to have to sand that coat off. Just keep things clean, sand down to about 280 grit, if you're going to roll use a foam roller, and you should be good to go.

I do not have a filter on my air hose, so you may be right about the oil in the air.
The paper towels I used were from Home Depot and come in a big square box. I don't remember anything else about them other than they are white, general purpose paper towels. I did use the tack cloth very lightly and did not scrub with it.

When you say I will have to sand that coat off, are you referring to the epoxy coat or the paint coat? If it is the paint coat, I removed that immediately with paper towel and then wiped the residual with brushing reducer.

I think I will experiment a little in different areas with cleaning, sanding and wiping down to see if I can identify what stops this. Maybe save the 545 primer for a last resort, but if the paint doesn't stick I don't see the primer sticking either.

[sean9c]

Saved yourself a step by wiping the paint off. I'd just give it a good sanding, clean and paint.
Try different paper towels. I've never looked but I wonder if paint stores sell paper towels or rags.
After sanding I'd just vacuum, dry wipe, tack and paint. Water wash if you want. By solvent wiping you take the risk of the solvent emulsifying something in your rag or paper towel and moving that to your part.
It'll go fine this time

Originally Posted by Wind River

I do not have a filter on my air hose, so you may be right about the oil in the air.
The paper towels I used were from Home Depot and come in a big square box. I don't remember anything else about them other than they are white, general purpose paper towels. I did use the tack cloth very lightly and did not scrub with it.

When you say I will have to sand that coat off, are you referring to the epoxy coat or the paint coat? If it is the paint coat, I removed that immediately with paper towel and then wiped the residual with brushing reducer.

I think I will experiment a little in different areas with cleaning, sanding and wiping down to see if I can identify what stops this. Maybe save the 545 primer for a last resort, but if the paint doesn't stick I don't see the primer sticking either.

[s/v Jedi]

Awlprep T0008 never problems

[Mithril Bham]

I am by no means an expert but I note no mention of a tack cloth.
In my experience coating is time/temperature dependent. I apply coating a little less than 24 hours after primer. Always over 50 degrees.

[reed1v]

You simply live in the wrong state. You are using wet/dry sandpaper, tack rags(real ones), in a dust free area(no wind, humidity, etc), and have washed the hull down one last time with acetone( it will suck up any water molecules that might be having a party on your hull). Also keep brushes in a protected environment like baggies.

[Three Sisters]

Originally Posted by Wind River

Raw fiberglass resin must be ground with 36–60 grit paper until 100% of the surface is dull, with a 36–60 grit surface profile. Allowing even small spots of un-sanded resin in the weave of the fiber strands can lead to adhesion failures.

Somehow 36 grit and mirror finish don't fit too well.

Should a query be made to Awlgrip whether they offer any classes in "Engineering according to Awlgrip" ?

[Wind River]

[QUOTE=magellanyachts;2121667]I am by no means an expert but I note no mention of a tack cloth.
In my experience coating is time/temperature dependent. I apply coating a little less than 24 hours after primer. Always over 50 degrees.[/QUOTE


You just missed it. Post #1

[sean9c]

The only time you want to worry about the 24 hour recoat time is if you are going to apply paint over unsanded primer. You are going to sand your primer so recoat time doesn't matter.


[QUOTE=Wind River;2121729]

Originally Posted by magellanyachts

I am by no means an expert but I note no mention of a tack cloth.
In my experience coating is time/temperature dependent. I apply coating a little less than 24 hours after primer. Always over 50 degrees.[/QUOTE


You just missed it. Post #1