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Old 11-07-2011, 11:12   #1
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Are We in Over Our Heads, or Just Ignorant About What it Takes to Refit ?

Hello All,
Well after 2 years of searching we finally made an offer, had a survey on an Endurance 35. She's on the hard and had tons of money poured into her a few years back with new sails, new electrical and plumbing, new mast and some standing rigging, new toe rail, new head, galley, stove and refer and salon, new diamond windows and custom frames, new cushions, steering, binnacle, cockpit, anchor chain. However she has been neglected the last couple years sitting on the hard and has developed cracks in the rudder from water intrusion, a few minor plumbing issues and a seized engine.
We originally thought this would be a great opportunity to get a decent boat on our beer budget. Now with the project list getting longer it seems possible we could just be taking on some one else's money pit.
Since we haven't owned a boat of this size or fitted one for offshore use we are naive to the realities of the project. I'd like to get some feedback to see if this list is typical and doable within 10 months while working full time without taking ALL our cash and making us broke with a boat still on the hard and unsailable and unsellable.
Here's the list.
New bowsprit, pulpit, railings, stern railing, and stanchions. (we got a bid for all this for around $10,000)

Hull needs to sanded down completely and painted, top needs waxing.
New interior needs more varnishing, new sole needs varnish too.

New engine, (we are considering going electric, but that is another thread, we got a bid for $15,000 for a new Volvo 30hp.) Probably need new prop too.

Rebuild rudder. Haven't gotten the bid on this yet. We heard can be up to $6000.

New batteries for house and starter. Possible moving location of battery storage.
Install deck hardware and running rigging.
Fix leaky hatch and possibly install 2 new hatches.
Misc. plumbing stuff.

That part would just be to get her sailing. Phase II would be to go offshore and wouldn't be for a year or two but would include:
Windvane,
Solar panels and charging system
SSB and chartplotter
New companion way hatch, dodger, bimini, water filter system, nice wheel, 2nd anchor and chain, hard dingy and more.

This list is not thorough just gives an idea of the larger issues and projects ahead.

We could go either way at this point. The hull is sound and electrical redone. We like the layout and the boat, however since we would be doing the work and not hiring out except for the larger issues mentioned we realize that we would not have a life for the next year. This is okay, but with jobs, rental house projects like new roofs, windows, etc it gets overwhelming easily.
So what say you? Is this typical and doable or crazy and we should move on to another opportunity?
The boat is under contract for under $20,000 currently. But figure end of phase I will have about $70,000 into her. We have not found a boat for that amount that would be comparable to what we would have when finished. There's the rub. Can we handle the stress of the project and take the risk that this will work out as we envision? Could you do this in 10 months? Would you want to? Will we thank ourselves later or is there a red flag here that we are blind to?
Thanks for your help.
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Old 11-07-2011, 11:28   #2
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I did something similar. Took me a winter of evenings. Replaced steering wiring hoses clamps engine cockpit sole serviced thruhulls replace some thru hulls.sanded bottom etc.... It didn't seem that bad then I would dread that list now. Just doing the bottom last week was brutal. Now I'm sailing going that way you can't tell which way that is because I'm pointing but generally I pointed 40 degrees good luck I enjoyed the work scheduling materials and dreaming now I would dread doing it all over again. I
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Old 11-07-2011, 11:47   #3
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Re: Are We in Over Our Heads, or Just Ignorant About What it Takes to Refit ?

Your only over your heads if you don't live in the south where you can do most of the work yourself. If your'e in the north and can only work by season you will get beaten down by the time factors. A lot of variables in your "to do list" that can be money savers if researched sufficiently. For instance a siezed engine can be saved. Rudders can be repaired or replaced with good condition used. If half way through you decide it isn't worth the time, effort, or expense, how saleable is the results of what you've all ready accomplished? If, however, it becomes a labor of love, then you can learn and appreciate your vessel better than if you had just turned the key.
all the best,
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Old 11-07-2011, 11:55   #4
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Re: Are We in Over Our Heads, or Just Ignorant About What it Takes to Refit ?

Dani and I are refitting an old boat we bought right now. Our free time has dissolved. our weekends are spent pouring sweat and busting knuckles.

If you like this sort of thing, then go for it. We both get off on the thrill of completing a job that looks great. Making treasure out of trash if you will. If you enjoy projects, it could be worth it even with the stress. If you don't LOVE that sort of thing, then go buy the already fixed up boat and leave this one behind.

You'll look like this every day:
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Old 11-07-2011, 11:56   #5
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Re: Are We in Over Our Heads, or Just Ignorant About What it Takes to Refit ?

Good points.
We live in the PNW and are not young anymore. The engine is not salvageable, the rudder needs to be split open before determined the extent of repair.
We like to work hard... but need to be realistic about what can be accomplished in one season.
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Old 11-07-2011, 12:05   #6
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Re: Are We in Over Our Heads, or Just Ignorant About What it Takes to Refit ?

Sounds ideal for someone looking for a huge boat project. For someone who wants to go cruising is sounds like a very poor plan. Expect the unexpected. There should be functional $70K boats for sale that are out there cruising now.
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Old 11-07-2011, 12:06   #7
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It has taken me a few years to figure out what izcan do correctly and what should be farmed out. Labour intensive things i do , specailsed jobs farm out critical items i get multiple quotes, Also prioritize importqnt over looks do important first after you do whant to sqil it? Cuts done cost and time interior can be painted going down south engine should be rebuilt first my two. Cents worth
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Old 11-07-2011, 12:16   #8
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Re: Are We in Over Our Heads, or Just Ignorant About What it Takes to Refit ?

Better yet, fly to Spain and buy this one:

1980 Endurance 35 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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Old 11-07-2011, 12:16   #9
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Re: Are We in Over Our Heads, or Just Ignorant About What it Takes to Refit ?

Hi there,
Number of big questions you will have to ask yourself:
1. How good are you with your hands?
2. Do you have a (cheap) yard that you trust close by? (very important)
3. How do you deal with a to-do list that grows? (at least in the beginning)
4. What is your experience with long projects? (ever bought an old house)?

Make en excel sheet (prop: 3k, paint job: 3-7k, shaft?, ec etc)
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Old 11-07-2011, 12:20   #10
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Re: Are We in Over Our Heads, or Just Ignorant About What it Takes to Refit ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailonsimcoe View Post
It has taken me a few years to figure out what izcan do correctly and what should be farmed out. Labour intensive things i do , specailsed jobs farm out critical items i get multiple quotes, Also prioritize importqnt over looks do important first after you do whant to sqil it? Cuts done cost and time interior can be painted going down south engine should be rebuilt first my two. Cents worth
I totally agree. Forget the cosmetic till the required things are complete. Shop shop shop... I am sure you can get a perfectly good engine for alot less. You can rebuild the rudder. I did on mine if it is just a fiberglass repair. Took me a year to do my boat (still not done with everything).
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Old 11-07-2011, 12:22   #11
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Re: Are We in Over Our Heads, or Just Ignorant About What it Takes to Refit ?

Find the boat you really want, ready to sail. Get a loan, go sailing. Use the time you would have spent rebuilding the boat (not your first love, eh), to earn income at something you are good at. You get to enjoy sailing NOW, and your equity increases with each months loan payment.
Remember--cost of living is going up, chance of living is going down.
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Old 11-07-2011, 12:38   #12
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Re: Are We in Over Our Heads, or Just Ignorant About What it Takes to Refit ?

You are going tp put $70,000 into a boat that will be worth $40k. Are you mad?

Go buy a $70k boat that doesnt need any work.

Sorry to sound brittle.

Have you actually bought this boat yet? You don't make that plain in your post.
If you haven't bought it I would seriously, seriously tell you to stop and have a think. Have a look at boats vastly newer, much larger, vastly better and a comprable price without the work and drama.

You say you're not young anymore, so why work like crazy instead of living your life in some kind of leisure?

No, I see what it is.... I just flicked that boat type on Google. Its a full keel twin mast thing.


People who like those sort of boats don't listen to people like me.

So I bow and exit....
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Old 11-07-2011, 12:41   #13
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Re: Are We in Over Our Heads, or Just Ignorant About What it Takes to Refit ?

If you do take the plunge, I have one suggestion. Do not try to start too many projects at once. If you decide to bail, or want a different boat, sometime down the road, then you don't want lots of unfinished bits. Break it down into manageable chunks, one or two chunks at a time.

Chris
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Old 11-07-2011, 12:55   #14
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Re: Are We in Over Our Heads, or Just Ignorant About What it Takes to Refit ?

Good stuff.
We are a little mad.
Haven't bought the boat yet. And haven't found a boat for $70k that fits the bill, or even near it. It's a cutter and old, yes. Don't want a loan and couldn't get one on an older boat anyway.
I agree about the go sailing part...
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Old 11-07-2011, 13:12   #15
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Re: Are We in Over Our Heads, or Just Ignorant About What it Takes to Refit ?

Just one more thought ... we had friends that bought an older boat without an engine in the Rio Dulce and completely rebuilt it. The advantage is that now whenever anything goes wrong - as it inevitably does - they know every in & out of the boat.

Versus our boat -- the prior owner thought he was quite the handyman, without knowing beans about some subjects ... such as electricity. When things go wrong, we spend alot of time redoing things that should have been done correctly to begin with.

... just another thought as you decide whether you want to fix this boat up or not. Personally we would pass and go look for another boat, but we're not good at redoing systems, we can maintain them most times ... with the input of our cruising friends.
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