Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 23-06-2013, 13:34   #16
Marine Service Provider
 
AnchorageGuy's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Wherever the boat is!
Boat: Marine Trader 34DC
Posts: 4,618
Re: Are barrier coatings bogus?

You have a couple of choices.One is to do nothing. Blisters have NEVER caused a boat to sink and once it's in the water, the only ones that can see it is the fish, and they don't care. Paint the bottom and sail it. If you plan to sell it some day you can either address the blisters or sell it at a price that reflects the need for a bottom job. Ytwo, you can fix it but do it right or don't do it at all. The bottom needs to be peeled to the level that eliminates the offending blisters. THEN it needs to dry out to 3% or less moisture. Then apply the barrier coat according to manufacturers instruction. If you don't want to do this, don't waste your time or money, the barrier coat will blister along with possibly some of the fiberglass you left on, and it will only take one season. So those are your choices. Chuck
__________________

__________________
Chesapeake Bay, ICW Hampton Roads To Key West, The Gulf Coast, The Bahamas

The Trawler Beach House
Voyages Of Sea Trek
AnchorageGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2013, 13:52   #17
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Hailing Minny, MN
Boat: Vancouver 27
Posts: 751
Images: 1
Re: Are barrier coatings bogus?

The broker I bought my boat from had posters hanging up in his office expounding the conspiracy of blister repair.

I have found a few blisters a few layers into the laminate and plan on barrier coating next season.

At the very least, just get a kit of Interlux 2000 from WMarine and layer it on. Like $200. Your hull is probably as dry as it will ever be right now and it'd just be like adding another coat or two of paint.
__________________

__________________
laika is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2013, 14:54   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Vancouver, BC
Boat: Alberg 30
Posts: 344
Quote:
Originally Posted by laika View Post
The broker I bought my boat from had posters hanging up in his office expounding the conspiracy of blister repair.

I have found a few blisters a few layers into the laminate and plan on barrier coating next season.

At the very least, just get a kit of Interlux 2000 from WMarine and layer it on. Like $200. Your hull is probably as dry as it will ever be right now and it'd just be like adding another coat or two of paint.
Does he sell a lot of blistery boats? Lol.
__________________
jgbrown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2013, 15:05   #19
Registered User
 
lateral's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: NZ
Boat: S34 Bob Stewart - 1959 Patiki class. Re--built by me & good mate.
Posts: 703
Re: Are barrier coatings bogus?

I have never been able to get my head around barrier coat laden with solvent being a barrier, so I use neat epoxy 100% solids at at least 500 microns (0.5mm) then barrier
coat. For a polyester boat I would consider using Vinylester then barrier.

The barrier really being a pre- AF paint easy sand prep coat. I would like to see a study on barrier coat efficacy vs 100% solids epoxy. BC is way user friendly than neat epoxy though.
__________________
lateral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2013, 20:12   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 647
Re: Are barrier coatings bogus?

In 1985 when the boat was brand new having never been into the water, I had the yard put a coal tar epoxy barrier coating on the bottom. For the next 25 plus years the boat has been continuously in the water only to be hauled out every 2 or 3 years for a short duration of a week of less for bottom paint. About a year and a half ago the boat was assessed with blisters and after a laminate profile was done it was confirmed to be in the fiberglass rather than just in the paint. Because the boat was going to remain on the hard for a long time frame, I decided that it would be best to fix the problem even though there was no safety issue involved. I had the yard do the peel removing all the gel and even into the choped strand matt. My son and I did some of the minor sanding and then I preped the boat for the epoxy. The first coat was epiglass, a neat epoxy which would penetrate into the remaining CSM. After removing the blush and sanding etc, the numerous barrier coats of 2000e was applied and finally the bottom paint was hot coated to achieve a chemical bond. I put more layers than the recommended number going with 7 rather than the 4 to 5. Eleven gallons of epoxy was used on a 37 ft boat and that should provide adequate protection. I probably would not have done this work if the boat was going to be sailed, but since there was a long time to be on the hard adequate dry time was esencial.
__________________
lancelot9898 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2013, 21:29   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: virginia
Boat: islandpacket
Posts: 1,839
Whats your boat worth and how long will you keep it?
__________________
That derelict boat was another dream for somebody else, don't let it be your nightmare and a waste of your life.
Badsanta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-06-2013, 00:46   #22
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,201
Images: 52
Re: Are barrier coatings bogus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterwayguy View Post
You have a couple of choices.One is to do nothing. Blisters have NEVER caused a boat to sink and once it's in the water, the only ones that can see it is the fish, and they don't care. Paint the bottom and sail it. If you plan to sell it some day you can either address the blisters or sell it at a price that reflects the need for a bottom job. Ytwo, you can fix it but do it right or don't do it at all. The bottom needs to be peeled to the level that eliminates the offending blisters. THEN it needs to dry out to 3% or less moisture. Then apply the barrier coat according to manufacturers instruction. If you don't want to do this, don't waste your time or money, the barrier coat will blister along with possibly some of the fiberglass you left on, and it will only take one season. So those are your choices. Chuck

3% lol! Never seen a boat read that low, not even commissioning new ones straight off the truck, never been in the water.
__________________
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,

Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
minaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-06-2013, 01:23   #23
Registered User
 
lateral's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: NZ
Boat: S34 Bob Stewart - 1959 Patiki class. Re--built by me & good mate.
Posts: 703
Re: Are barrier coatings bogus?

I have a lignomat pin & protimeter aquant. I have never had timber below 8% (tinder kiln dried) but it does depend how you calibrate them. I calibrate for timber type and time of year at ambient (sheltered) Typical.
How do you calibrate for grp?
__________________
lateral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-06-2013, 07:51   #24
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,201
Images: 52
Re: Are barrier coatings bogus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lateral View Post
I have a lignomat pin & protimeter aquant. I have never had timber below 8% (tinder kiln dried) but it does depend how you calibrate them. I calibrate for timber type and time of year at ambient (sheltered) Typical.
How do you calibrate for grp?


You don't, you use a meter designed for FRP. I use the GRP-33 from JR Overseas. They do come with a calibration plate, but you basically just take readings off the plate for comparison to remove any discrepancy caused by ambient humidity. I wouldn't use a regular meter, particularly one with a probe.
__________________
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,

Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
minaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-06-2013, 07:59   #25
Marine Service Provider
 
AnchorageGuy's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Wherever the boat is!
Boat: Marine Trader 34DC
Posts: 4,618
Re: Are barrier coatings bogus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
3% lol! Never seen a boat read that low, not even commissioning new ones straight off the truck, never been in the water.
We've never done a bottom job unless we get a 3% reading. Perhaps your meters were never calibrated or it was not taken properly. Not sure how a boat out of the factory that has never been in the water reads a high moisture reading. That makes my point. You can't just take a meter and stick it against the hull. The user needs to know how to use a moisture meter properly. I have commissioned hundreds of boat from the factory that came in on trucks. Some manufacturers do test their boats in tanks. If they have done this, the bottom needs to dry out again before that barrier is applied. Chuck
__________________
Chesapeake Bay, ICW Hampton Roads To Key West, The Gulf Coast, The Bahamas

The Trawler Beach House
Voyages Of Sea Trek
AnchorageGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-06-2013, 08:08   #26
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,201
Images: 52
Re: Are barrier coatings bogus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterwayguy View Post
We've never done a bottom job unless we get a 3% reading. Perhaps your meters were never calibrated or it was not taken properly. Not sure how a boat out of the factory that has never been in the water reads a high moisture reading. That makes my point. You can't just take a meter and stick it against the hull. The user needs to know how to use a moisture meter properly. I have commissioned hundreds of boat from the factory that came in on trucks. Some manufacturers do test their boats in tanks. If they have done this, the bottom needs to dry out again before that barrier is applied. Chuck


Hilarious! New boats usually read 7-8%, which is not a high reading at all. What meter are you using? I too have commissioned hundreds of boats. I have also peeled and dried many hundreds of boats. I would guess you are using a cheap meter made for timber. Tell us the model!
__________________
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,

Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
minaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-06-2013, 08:37   #27
Registered User

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Mangareva, French Polynesia
Boat: Heritage West Indies 36
Posts: 513
Re: Are barrier coatings bogus?

Barrier coating really won't take that much more time than just bottom-painting. You can do 4 coats of 2000e plus a tie-coat of hard bottom paint in one day. No sanding between layers, just wait until you can touch the paint without it coming off on your finger. On a sunny day you can almost finish one coat and start straight away on the second. After the hard layer put on your ablative coats (i assume you're using ablative paint?). If you use different colour paints it makes the layering easier (alternate grey and white barrier coat, then use a different colour tie coat to your ablative coat. That way when you start to see the hard coat colour coming through you know you haven't got much life left in the ablative).

You might even be able to do the whole thing in one day. Both 2000e and bottom paint dries quickly!
__________________
DefinitelyMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-06-2013, 13:11   #28
Registered User
 
lateral's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: NZ
Boat: S34 Bob Stewart - 1959 Patiki class. Re--built by me & good mate.
Posts: 703
Re: Are barrier coatings bogus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
You don't, you use a meter designed for FRP. I use the GRP-33 from JR Overseas. They do come with a calibration plate, but you basically just take readings off the plate for comparison to remove any discrepancy caused by ambient humidity. I wouldn't use a regular meter, particularly one with a probe.
Same as for wood.
GE Protimeter BLD5760 Aquant Moisture Measurement System, GE Protimeter BLD 5760 - at Test Equipment Depot

My boat is timber & epoxy. They (meters) belong to my business. (Construction.)
Also- manual sayes it is suitable for GRP, must read the calibration process, I just have never had the occasion
to test grp.
Besides, relativity to a control sample, is the key to moisture radio frequency meters. Units mean squat.
__________________
lateral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-06-2013, 15:08   #29
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,201
Images: 52
Re: Are barrier coatings bogus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lateral View Post
Same as for wood.
GE Protimeter BLD5760 Aquant Moisture Measurement System, GE Protimeter BLD 5760 - at Test Equipment Depot

My boat is timber & epoxy. They (meters) belong to my business. (Construction.)
Also- manual sayes it is suitable for GRP, must read the calibration process, I just have never had the occasion
to test grp.
Besides, relativity to a control sample, is the key to moisture radio frequency meters. Units mean squat.


Funny, I test mine against the calibration plate (control sample) regularly and find that conditions mean little to it. It's remarkably accurate. I have had the occasion to test GRP a great many times. I'm on my 5-6th meter. The sensor plates eventually wear off.
__________________
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,

Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
minaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-06-2013, 15:58   #30
Registered User
 
lateral's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: NZ
Boat: S34 Bob Stewart - 1959 Patiki class. Re--built by me & good mate.
Posts: 703
Re: Are barrier coatings bogus?

Off topic but interesting.
GRP shouldn't vary too much, should it? As in approx.50/50 glass to resin.
Boat to boat, similar layup.
As cedar, to say jarrah, measures different for the same moisture content.
But what I was saying, the scale don't mean much. As in if you benchmark
on something topside that gets the sun & is dry, with same (relative) structure,
then go back where hull is immersed you get the picture what is going on.
Do you not? Just how long are you gonna wait to get it in an acceptable range similar to topside?
My ol hull wasn't rotten but reading 25-35%. Put a bag over it and got it down to 10-14%. It was a little distressed!
Took the bag off and within two days was back at 25%.
Something about the hydroscopecicity of salt.
Re-strip plank with virgin timber.

Pine in NZ, settles at about 15-16% (summer) under cover, from ambient humidity. 16-17 winter.
I just set my meter on this & won't epoxy over anything > 13%.
Anyhow, too late now.
__________________

__________________
lateral is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:41.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.