Applying Veneer Over Interior Wood ?

[SvenG]

I really appreciate all the great advice, and it is all great.

Since I have two quite small and not-too-visible panels (head and v-berth) I have learning room so I think I'll change my mind and try to go the contact cement route after all.

Chop sticks are great for painting and varnishing and I'll see if they can be used for contact cement spacers too.

If I may ask one more question ... which contact cement ?

Thanks again,



-Sven

[svHyLyte]

Take a look at Amazon.com: Dap 00272 Weldwood The Original Contact Cement… . Be sure to have good ventillation in the boat. It may help to apply the material to the veneer laid out on the salon table (which should, of sourse, be covered with---Wax Paper!).

As for advocates of "Chop Stick" spacers, how would one hold them in place on a (verticle) bulkhead?

[knottybuoyz]

Heat Lock iron on veneer glue.

Better Bond Heat-Lockâ„¢ Veneer Glue - VeneerSupplies.com

[anglooff]

As Boomp stated above it would be very useful to see a photo of the specific problem and surrounding area. You are about to attempt the most pernickety, frustrating, fiddly job on a boat. If successful then it’s wonderfully satisfying, but it can also break your heart.

Par has made some great points and within his posts are the answers you need. More importantly however was his question why not just address the one inch problem directly. You are about to find out why good professionals are so highly paid. If the damaged veneer can somehow be detached from the vertical and you can work on it horizontally, then you have a good chance of making an excellent job. If you must attempt it in situ then it becomes many times harder.

My suggestion would be to make an experiment. Try to accurately cut and glue a half metre square piece of your veneer to any purchased flatboard. If this succeeds without any misalignment, air bubbles, creases etc., then give it a try.

However, even if successful I would first address every possible method to clean, stain etc the existing area. I would even build a bookshelf, hang a plaque etc. Seriously!!!!!!

The shortest sentence in the bible is “Jesus wept”. He was a carpenter and I know exactly how he felt.

Do get pictures…do experiment…especially on the vertical. It is possible, it can be done, but cutting and hanging veneer is an acquired and unless you have moldings a precise skill.

Best regards

Alan

[JanetGroene]

Great tips here about measuring and adhesion but I haven't seen much about surface prep. Some veneers and laminates are more forgiving than others but make sure surface is glassy smooth or imperfections or grain may telegraph through. Janet Groene, http://www,BoatCook.blogspot.com

[PAR]

Glassy smooth isn't the usual goal for surface prep and yes, I assumed the surface would be clean and scuffed. Now the surface should be fair, which is considerably different then smooth. Smooth you can only feel, but fair you see assuming it's got a reflective finish.

Veneers come with three different backing types, raw wood, paper or fabric. All of these accept contact cement and heat activated glues very well with little prep. Raw woods that happen to be oily like teak, should be cleaned with a 50/50 acetone/rubbing alcohol mix, just prior to glue application to remove the tannins. A light scuff is all the bonding surface it really needs.

Some woods, like Douglas fir can telegraph through if they've been especially "wash boarded" from excessive sanding. I don't think that's the case here, but naturally any surface imperfections you can feel may need to have additional prep. Generally, veneer over veneer, is fairly trouble free in this regard. It's when you're trying to get fancy or cover up a hideous sin, that this sort of thing rears up and bites you on the transom.

[brankin]

A very easy way to apply the veneer over an existing laminated plywood while it is in place, is to prep the existing wood so it is smooth and will not interfere with the new veneer when it is glued in place. After you prep the surface, apply a thin coat of contact cement on the plywood and the back of the veneer. Next, go have several beers and wait until the next day so that the contact cement is totally dry. Trim the veneer so you have a perfect dry fit and tape the edges so it stays in place. Next get a iron like you do your shirts with and gently heat the veneer. The heat will re-activate the glue and you will have a perfect, void free job.

Don't get cheap on the glue. I use the Formica brand and find it will roll on with a very smooth lump free surface. Stay away from the stuff from home depot...it will make a mess of your work. Each veneer is different so I suggest you do a test panel and make sure this works with your veneer.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, brankin.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

[SvenG]

We've installed the portholes/lights that didn't need veneer resurfacing, but next are the 5 that do need the new veneer.

After considering the advice here and reading a step-by-step blog about interior resurfacing I just ordered Better Bond Heat-Lock™ Veneer Glue for the job.

The instructions at VeneerSupplies.com talk mainly about applying heat with a regular iron and a rag or old t-shirt between the iron and the veneer. They also mention that customers have reported that a temperature of about 160-180 degrees seems optimal (I think that was the range). What I'm considering is if using a heat gun and a pointable IR thermometer might be more exact, to avoid scorching or an under-cured bond. The iron would still be used to apply pressure over large areas but for interior corners wood block or the like could be used if the heat was delivered with the heat gun.

I'll have a few weeks to think it over but wouldn't mind some more insights from others.

Thanks,



-Sven

[SimonV]

Hi Sven

As you know I had the same problem, but as I am a cheap skate I went with white paint (Hogs brissel) and I refurbished the old ports painting the inside surrond in "aged copper" hammer tone. total cost @ $200

[SvenG]

Hi Simon,

Originally Posted by SimonV

As you know I had the same problem, but as I am a cheap skate I went with white paint (Hogs brissel) and I refurbished the old ports painting the inside surrond in "aged copper" hammer tone. total cost @ $200

That option wouldn't be too appealing to us because the plastic portholes haven't just leaked due to caulking issues. The porthole gaskets and the plastic lenses do not stand up to green water (even light green) washing over the deck.

As you may have seen on the Ericson forum, the new SS porthole we just installed leaked too this past weekend, but that was because I hadn't used enough butyl during the installation. More butyl and that will be fixed, but butyl or caulk won't seal the remaining 5 pastic portholes that all leaked too because they leaked due to the plastic lenses and the gaskets not standing up to the pressure.

[Aside: Do you keep a picture site for GOODONYA ? I'd like to see how your shower is set up if you have one and maybe get other ideas too. Many of our snaps are at Picasa Web Albums - Sven but they aren't just boat pictures.]

Thanks,


-Sven

[SimonV]

Hi Sven
My boat has the original Aluminium ports with Glass. I am doing the shower next it has a GRP floor pan and drains into the bilge so I am putting in a sump and pump and changing the taps to one with a pull out shower rose.

[cavelamb]

My grandfather was a cabinet maker. He used heavy string run back and forth over dry contact cement to keep the two surfaces apart. Might be difficult on a vertical surface, but works perfectly on horizontals. Richard

[cavelamb]

Originally Posted by SvenG

We've installed the portholes/lights that didn't need veneer resurfacing, but next are the 5 that do need the new veneer.

After considering the advice here and reading a step-by-step blog about interior resurfacing I just ordered Better Bond Heat-Lock™ Veneer Glue for the job.

I'll have a few weeks to think it over but wouldn't mind some more insights from others.

Thanks,

-Sven

Click on the link for "Full Instructions". I was interested too - until we got to the part about the heat from the iron shrinking the veneer... Iron-On Veneering With Heat Lock™ Adhesive

[SimonV]

hi Sven I finished painting and it looks great, even though its satin off white it realy picks up the light. much easier than putting on veneer.