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Old 18-10-2012, 23:38   #16
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Re: Any of you stuck working on a boat for...

Sumner, I read the link to your fun on Lake Powell. Even before I got to the chart I figured you were at or just down lake of Dangling Rope. Let me tell you, that is probably one of the worst parts of the lake. Hope you heal up to 100%.

I was out of Page flying tourists for a couple of years. While there I bought a boat to explore the lake. The wind was made much worse because of terrain. There are holes to duck the wind. The SW winds are predominant in spring/early summer.
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Old 18-10-2012, 23:48   #17
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Re: Any of you stuck working on a boat for...

Having been in home construction for over 20 yrs and remembering an OSHA class in Const Mgmt I certainly agree with Gary Mayo. All stairs are inherently dangerous. The worst conditions are ladders in poor condition or exceeding their weight design limits. Right up there is inconsistent tread height.

I have staked ladders to the ground using lengths of rebar and lashed to the ladder. At top, lash to ensure zero movement. Use buckets to hoist or lower tools or supplies. Personally for being on the hard for any length of time, especially having a physically limited crew, I build set of stairs with middle landing. The stairway doubles back on itself. This reduces rise for given run. Alternately, use the step ladders you might see at libraries or warehouses.
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Old 19-10-2012, 00:45   #18
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I became interested in this thread because of my own personal fears of ladders. My personal rule, stop at the third rung. Any higher and a better tool is sought.

The couple silly pics in this thread made me want to see how people were using ladders, so I googled ladders and found some remarkable images.

Seems the higher, the more risks people seem to accept.

I saw my wife in a roll over car crash on a gravel road in front of me. Car left the road and ended up in a corn field. She came flying out a window. Broken collar bone and a cut on the top of her head. Watching that accident scared me almost to death. However, the forth rung of a ladder frightens me more.

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Old 19-10-2012, 02:24   #19
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Re: Any of you stuck working on a boat for...

This is a ladder



DIY wooden ladder (rejected by me Father as now past it's use by date)....and roped to half a steel ladder .......built by DOJ .

A temporary measure when the harbour office removed the existing ladder (took a few months to replace with new )......I only used it when the tide was in (I figured a soft landing would be better!) - and it was as rickety as it looks (it started off straight!), but fortunately I am fairly nimble and light.

Notice that the dink is only secured by a rope (not a lock) - the (unlocked) oars are kept inside. Welcome to Jersey .


Obviously I would never have suggested someone else use the ladder!, and whilst I do perfectly understand (and agree with) health & safety legislation within the workplace (to prevent employers taking the p#ss) - nonetheless the above not subject to the dead hand of da Gubberment .....only Darwin .
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Old 19-10-2012, 12:24   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryMayo
The Occupational Safety and Health Adminastration has a label on all ladders sold for use in the USA . While your ladder may be wider, stronger, more stable on the ground and rungs more comfortable, should someone get hurt using your home made ladder, your insurance will bail on any claim made and OSHA will fine you enough, you could purchase 5 37' sailboats.

Interestingly, ladders are to be used then put away. If OSHA sees a ladder leaning anywhere someone is not currently using it, ten grand fine. That according to my business property landlord.

Yet another compelling reason to do my uninsured boats work in a banana republic far away from the nanny
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Old 19-10-2012, 13:52   #21
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Re: Any of you stuck working on a boat for...

I just wish the person that "borrowed" my ladder in the boat yard would return it. Its been three years he/she should be finished with it by now.
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Old 19-10-2012, 14:21   #22
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Re: Any of you stuck working on a boat for...

Here's what OSHA has to say:

Quote:
The OSHA Standard for portable ladders contains specific requirements designed to ensure worker safety:

Loads
Self-supporting (foldout) and non-self-supporting (leaning) portable ladders must be able to support at least four times the maximum intended load, except extra-heavy-duty metal or plastic ladders, which must be able to sustain 3.3 times the maximum intended load. (See Figure 1.)

Angle
Non-self-supporting ladders, which must lean against a wall or other support, are to be positioned at such an angle that the horizontal distance from the top support to the foot of the ladder is about 1/4 the working length of the ladder. (See Figure 2.)

In the case of job-made wooden ladders, that angle should equal about 1/8 the working length. This minimizes the strain of the load on ladder joints that may not be as strong as on commercially manufactured ladders.

Rungs
Ladder rungs, cleats, or steps must be parallel, level, and uniformly spaced when the ladder is in position for use. Rungs must be spaced between 10 and 14 inches apart.

For extension trestle ladders, the spacing must be 8-18 inches for the base, and 6-12 inches on the extension section.

Rungs must be so shaped that an employee's foot cannot slide off, and must be skid-resistant. (See Figure 3.)

Slipping
Ladders are to be kept free of oil, grease, wet paint, and other slipping hazards.

Wood ladders must not be coated with any opaque covering, except identification or warning labels on one face only of a side rail.

Other Requirements
Foldout or stepladders must have a metal spreader or locking device to hold the front and back sections in an open position when in use. (See Figure 4.)

When two or more ladders are used to reach a work area, they must be offset with a landing or platform between the ladders.

The area around the top and bottom of ladder must be kept clear.

Ladders must not be tied or fastened together to provide longer sections, unless they are specifically designed for such use. (See Figure 5.)

Never use a ladder for any purpose other than the one for which it was designed.

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) ladder standards do not require manufacturers to label ladders with instructions and warnings. Manufacturers of ladders attach the labels to provide information for safe use, and to protect themselves in liability action from any misuse of the ladder.
So, OSHA specifically allows "job-made wooden ladders". Finally, OSHA regulations are related to Occupational Health and Safety. If your guest falls off your ladder OSHA has nothing to do/say. If your employee falls then you'll be talking with OSHA.
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Old 19-10-2012, 14:29   #23
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Re: Any of you stuck working on a boat for...

I'm surprised the yard allowed a home made ladder to be used because of their insurance requirements. It looks plenty strong though.
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Old 19-10-2012, 17:47   #24
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Re: Any of you stuck working on a boat for...

I have made plenty of ladders including of wood. My wood ladders have the rungs let into a mortise then glued with Gorilla Glue. Some of those I have tried to demoish at end of use. The material splinters before the tight mortise fails.

If one were to simply nail a run to the rails at least drive a dowel through or carriage bolt.
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Old 19-10-2012, 17:58   #25
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Re: Any of you stuck working on a boat for...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryMayo View Post
The Occupational Safety and Health Adminastration has a label on all ladders sold for use in the USA . While your ladder may be wider, stronger, more stable on the ground and rungs more comfortable, should someone get hurt using your home made ladder, your insurance will bail on any claim made and OSHA will fine you enough, you could purchase 5 37' sailboats.

Interestingly, ladders are to be used then put away. If OSHA sees a ladder leaning anywhere someone is not currently using it, ten grand fine. That according to my business property landlord.

Maybe build a proper set of stairs with a platform and stair rails. Hate to see one of you tumble and fall or get OSHA riled. I use a scissor lift working in or around my boats. Makes any job easier. Like having an elevator at the jobsite.
I dont believe OSHA has any say to private individuals. The key word being "Occupational Safety, Health and....)
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Old 20-10-2012, 00:12   #26
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Re: Any of you stuck working on a boat for...

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I dont believe OSHA has any say to private individuals. The key word being "Occupational Safety, Health and....)
But if they could, they would. OSHA, EPA and the fire departments make money off of fining business for violations.
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Old 20-10-2012, 11:13   #27
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Re: Any of you stuck working on a boat for...

Yeah, having been a Director of Op's, Op's Manager, Enviro Health and Safety Manager etc for years... I got pretty used to them. They have a certain number of "hot buttons", if you know what they are, and if you know to leave some small items for them to feed on... it really isnt a problem much. If you have repeated offences, a death or severe injury related to previous offences ....then yes, you can get a fine for sure! Never had a fine in 30 years though.
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Old 20-10-2012, 17:58   #28
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Re: Any of you stuck working on a boat for...

Hi:

My boat just arrived yesterday. It is a few dozen feet out the side door on its cradle.

Job one was to get into it. My solution thus far was to set up 2 scaffolding sets at the stern. The top set is mostly just guard rail, but also supports on the lower large diameter tubes two platforms (or whatever they are called). On the two platforms is a 2 level step ladder to get up the 3 or so feet into the cockpit. The lower set has a single platform on the high support tube, against which there is a 4 or 5 rung step ladder which is tied to the scaffold.

So up the first ladder, hit the first platform level. Step up about a foot to the second level, and scramble up the small ladder.

What is nice here is I do not have to climb with gear. Just sling it up to the first level, climb to first level, sling it to second level, climb to the second level, toss it into the cockpit and follow it.

I think I'll make some kind of box or 2 step staircase affair to replace the top ladder, and screw it to the platform. The bottom ladder I don't think merits much effort on improvement as the height is only about 4 feet to the first level. Plus it won't be needed in 2 months, the first scaffold level will be at the top of a snow bank.

This is a fairly expensive solution if you don't already have the scaffold bits. Fortunately I did have the scaffolding from the workshop build, so I was up and down to the boat in about an hour with pretty good safety.

Boulter
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Old 22-10-2012, 12:19   #29
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Re: Any of you stuck working on a boat for...

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Originally Posted by Richard5 View Post
Sumner, I read the link to your fun on Lake Powell. Even before I got to the chart I figured you were at or just down lake of Dangling Rope. Let me tell you, that is probably one of the worst parts of the lake. Hope you heal up to 100%.

I was out of Page flying tourists for a couple of years. While there I bought a boat to explore the lake. The wind was made much worse because of terrain. There are holes to duck the wind. The SW winds are predominant in spring/early summer.

We were just up the lake past .....



..... Dangling Rope towards Bullfrog in Balance Rock Canyon. We learned a lot...



.... fast on that trip.

Lots of rock and canyon walls in that area...



...and I'll bet you have some experiences from flying there,

Sum
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Old 22-10-2012, 14:54   #30
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Re: Any of you stuck working on a boat for...

Is that all anchor rhode in the cockpit!!! How deep is the water there!
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