Antifoul Puzzle

[Dockhead]

I used Jotun "Sea Queen" for years with good results. I had to lift and scrub every two months in the summer and every four months or so in the winter, but that seemed par for the course to me. It lasted two years.

But last year when I went to antifoul, I couldn't get the "Sea Queen" any more -- too much of some kind of harmful material, I guess.

I switched to the very expensive but highly rated International Micron Extra II.

Now I'm out of the water after less than a year, and the antifoul is worn off in a number of places, and obviously thin in others. WTF? And I didn't really scrub at all this last year -- I dried out and pressure washed myself in October, and that was it. In the brackish Baltic water, there's no need to scrub in the middle of the season.

So why is the antifoul worn off so quickly? Is it so much softer than the Jotun was?

And if it's so soft, how would it hold up to my normal routine of scrubbing 4 times a year or so?

Is it because of the miles? I did more than 3000 miles last year.

Or speed? I had a number of hours at 10+ knots, but in any given year I have a few of those, and the Jotun always coped with it.

I don't want to have to start antifouling every year. Not just because of the cost, but because it will build up twice as fast. And the cost -- this stuff is twice as expensive as the old Jotun was.

Grateful for any tips.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I used Jotun "Sea Queen" for years with good results. I had to lift and scrub every two months in the summer and every four months or so in the winter, but that seemed par for the course to me. It lasted two years.

But last year when I went to antifoul, I couldn't get the "Sea Queen" any more -- too much of some kind of harmful material, I guess.

I switched to the very expensive but highly rated International Micron Extra II.

Now I'm out of the water after less than a year, and the antifoul is worn off in a number of places, and obviously thin in others. WTF? And I didn't really scrub at all this last year -- I dried out and pressure washed myself in October, and that was it. In the brackish Baltic water, there's no need to scrub in the middle of the season.

So why is the antifoul worn off so quickly? Is it so much softer than the Jotun was?

And if it's so soft, how would it hold up to my normal routine of scrubbing 4 times a year or so?

Is it because of the miles? I did more than 3000 miles last year.

Or speed? I had a number of hours at 10+ knots, but in any given year I have a few of those, and the Jotun always coped with it.

I don't want to have to start antifouling every year. Not just because of the cost, but because it will build up twice as fast. And the cost -- this stuff is twice as expensive as the old Jotun was.

Grateful for any tips.

Dockhead, I might be wrong but Micron is an ablative. I don't think your mean to pressure wash it let alone scrub it. I used it for one season, with three coats. One of red, blue and then final coat of black. After just 12 months I had patches of red and blue and black. Though I just put it down to my poor application at the time.

But I also concluded it simply wasn't worth the extra cost and I then used Sigma the following year at half the cost.

[arsenelupiga]

i have 2 layers of micron extra and lasted 18 mths in high growth mooring area. Now going for new.

Diver wipes boat every 4-6 weeks. I think micron extra needs 7 kn + to clean itself.

maybe you had only 1 layer ?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

Dockhead, I might be wrong but Micron is an ablative. I don't think your mean to pressure wash it let alone scrub it. I used it for one season, with three coats. One of red, blue and then final coat of black. After just 12 months I had patches of red and blue and black. Though I just put it down to my poor application at the time.

But I also concluded it simply wasn't worth the extra cost and I then used Sigma the following year at half the cost.

They are all ablatives -- we don't use anything else around here on cruising boats. But different ablative antifouls are harder or softer. This one seems to be extremely soft, but I'm surprised.

The previous Jotun Sea Queen, also an ablative, would get scrubbed 7 or 8 times before I had to reapply it.

When I say "scrub" I mean pressure wash, of course.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

i have 2 layers of micron extra and lasted 18 mths in high growth mooring area. Now going for new.

Diver wipes boat every 4-6 weeks. I think micron extra needs 7 kn + to clean itself.

maybe you had only 1 layer ?

Two coats. Your experience is what I had expected.

Maybe it doesn't hold up to sea miles? I sailed 3000 miles last summer, most of them over 7 knots; many over 9. Maybe it just washed off?

[IdoraKeeper]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

i have 2 layers of micron extra and lasted 18 mths in high growth mooring area. Now going for new.

Diver wipes boat every 4-6 weeks. I think micron extra needs 7 kn + to clean itself.

maybe you had only 1 layer ?

This! On the other side of the planet and in a different hemisphere my experience exactly. I say wipe in the water and scrub struts and shafts that are not painted. As kid I had a hydroplane that had copper colored ablative on the bottom...required new paint every year.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

They are all ablatives -- we don't use anything else around here on cruising boats. But different ablative antifouls are harder or softer. This one seems to be extremely soft, but I'm surprised.

The previous Jotun Sea Queen, also an ablative, would get scrubbed 7 or 8 times before I had to reapply it.

When I say "scrub" I mean pressure wash, of course.

not all anti fouls are ablatives? International VC Off shore is not an ablative

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

When I say "scrub" I mean pressure wash, of course.

I would say that most people would naturally assume that a "scrub" meant you had a diver clean the bottom.

[barnakiel]

You can have any paint applied if you haul out in a commercial boatyard. Just ask the guys for the strong paint and you get it. Leisure boatyards are limited by the regulations in place.

We used Micron and it was good and as you noted, soft. Excellent when sailing, less so when static. Ours (4 fat coats) last NZ to EU that is about 12000 miles.

b.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

You can have any paint applied if you haul out in a commercial boatyard. Just ask the guys for the strong paint and you get it. Leisure boatyards are limited by the regulations in place.

Here in the U.S. (and I suspect most, if not all, other countries as well) "commercial" boatyards do not have special dispensation to apply anti fouling paints that are unavailable to the recreational boating market. Commercial shipping use the same products (or at least the same kind of products) that you and I do and if a particular type of of paint is illegal to use on a recreation vessel, it is illegal to use on a commercial vessel as well.

[unclemack]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

Here in the U.S. (and I suspect most, if not all, other countries as well) "commercial" boatyards do not have special dispensation to apply anti fouling paints that are unavailable to the recreational boating market. Commercial shipping use the same products (or at least the same kind of products) that you and I do and if a particular type of of paint is illegal to use on a recreation vessel, it is illegal to use on a commercial vessel as well.

Here in the UK Jotun's website clearly shows products for commercial vessels that are denied to the leisure market.

I assumed something related was what Barnakiel meant by "the strong paint"

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by unclemack

Here in the UK Jotun's website clearly shows products for commercial vessels that are denied to the leisure market.

I assumed something related was what Barnakiel meant by "the strong paint"

There are anti fouling coatings that manufacturers market to the commercial shipping industry but not the recreational boating industry. But this does not mean that recreational boaters are denied access to these products. They are certainly not illegal for recreational boaters to use. However these paints may be packaged and sold in quanties that are too large to be convenient for boatyards and individual boat owners to use.

In any event, the paints that commercial shipping use are not "stronger" than similar products you can buy.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

I would say that most people would naturally assume that a "scrub" meant you had a diver clean the bottom.

Ah, I see. No one users divers here (water is too cold, I guess).

So "scrub off" is a generic term, which could be lift and pressure wash, or dry out and use a brush.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

There are anti fouling coatings that manufacturers market to the commercial shipping industry but not the recreational boating industry. But this does not mean that recrational boaters are denied access to these products. They are certainly not illegal for recrational boaters to use. Typically these paints are packaged and sold in quanties that are too large to be convenient for boatyards and individual boat owners to use.

In any event, the paints that commercial shipping use are not "stronger" than similar products you can buy.

There are some antifouls over here which are sold only for "professional use". That doesn't mean just for ships; it just means some kind of pro needs to buy it it's not sold retail.

I am familiar with a couple of International products like that -- Micron 77, and Uni Pro.

Can't tell if there is really anything special about them. The Micron 77 is incredibly (!) expensive, almost $500 (!) for a 5 liter can. Wow!

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

There are some antifouls over here which are sold only for "professional use". That doesn't mean just for ships; it just means some kind of pro needs to buy it it's not sold retail.

When an anti fouling coating is sold "for professional use only", this is typically because application requires special equipment or training. The manufacturer is not going to sell a product like this to the average boat owner and then have it fail because the buyer was not equipped or was unqualified to apply it properly.

I will say that there is one well known exception to this- Pettit Trinidad Pro is sold to boatyards only. But it the exact same product as the Trinidad that you and I can buy.