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Old 08-03-2016, 09:56   #16
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Re: Antifoul Puzzle

OK, so here's what I've found out so far.

The Micron Extra II is extremely soft and not intended to stand up to any pressure washing at all. Also, I only put two coats on it -- they say it will last two seasons only with 4 or 5 coats.

So this is just no good for me -- I need to wash the hull, and anyway need to change anodes at least every 4 or 5 months. Little did I know that there was never any hope that the expensive job I did last year, would last more than one year.

"Cruiser Uno" might be better, and it's much cheaper. It's advertised to last a whole year with only one coat. So it must be (?) harder and maybe would stand being washed.

I called International tech support, and the guy was very helpful but I still couldn't get a definitive answer. Trilux is the hardest ablative they make so maybe this is my best bet. He also thought Cruiser Uno could work. Best of all, he suggested, would be to strip the bottom, prime it, put on HARD antifoul, then something like Trilux over that. Obviously not this year.

I am used to antifouling only every two years, and the frequency of this is important to my overall costs, as I only pay 150 pounds for a lift, hold in slings, and pressure wash, during which I can change anodes. To antifoul, however, requires lifting out and blocking off, which costs about $1000, plus the labor for doing the antifouling. I wouldn't really like to start doing that every year, also, it seems to me that the antifoul will build up much faster, which is also bad.

I'm leaning towards the Trilux, on the logic that I wash more often, so the relatively lesser strength of it is balanced by the greater hardness of it. Washing often might make up for the weaker biocidal action. Maybe the Micron Extra is really designed for people who just don't scrub in the middle of the season, which is not my case.
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Old 08-03-2016, 10:04   #17
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Re: Antifoul Puzzle

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Trilux is the hardest ablative they make so maybe this is my best bet.
Maybe Trilux is a different product in the U.K. than it is here. Here, it is one of the two least durable anti fouling paints I have ever come across.
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Old 08-03-2016, 10:10   #18
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Re: Antifoul Puzzle

I recommend you select Micron66 instead.
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Old 08-03-2016, 10:12   #19
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Re: Antifoul Puzzle

fstbttms, Do you service any boats that are permanently in water but have zero anti-fouling paint?

If so, how does the frequency of required scrubbing compare to boats with anti-fouling paint?

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Old 08-03-2016, 10:15   #20
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Re: Antifoul Puzzle

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I will say that there is one well known exception to this- Pettit Trinidad Pro is sold to boatyards only. But it the exact same product as the Trinidad that you and I can buy.
^^^^^^^^^^^^ This.

Just had this done. Same stuff, different can, the PRO is slightly darker in the blue color than the regular.
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Old 08-03-2016, 10:24   #21
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Re: Antifoul Puzzle

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I recommend you select Micron66 instead.
Excellent product. Unsuitable for fresh or brackish waters however, which I assume the OP experiences on a regular basis.
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Old 08-03-2016, 10:27   #22
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Re: Antifoul Puzzle

Sheen Marine promotes, sells, and applies Interlux brand products.

Micron CSC is a very high quality, premium, soft ablative, paint. While it does wear off more rapidly, we use it on power boats that cruise up to 35 knots.

Yards that are not familiar with this paint have to be advised to reduce pressure and nozzle proximity, or excessive "good" paint will be rmoved.

This is not a paint fault. It is a desirable quality. It is what makes the paint so effective with less "in-water" scrubbing.
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Old 08-03-2016, 10:28   #23
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Re: Antifoul Puzzle

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fstbttms, Do you service any boats that are permanently in water but have zero anti-fouling paint?
I have done but typically tell boat owners who somehow think keeping a boat in saltwater without anti fouling paint to look elsewhere for a diver. The last time a took on such a client, he had an Andrews 28 that I cleaned twice a week. Within a month I was no longer able to truly clean the bottom.


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If so, how does the frequency of required scrubbing compare to boats with anti-fouling paint?
My experience is that there is no frequency of service that will keep an unpainted bottom clean. Not painting the bottom of a boat that lives in saltwater is a very bad idea, IMHO.
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Old 08-03-2016, 10:33   #24
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Re: Antifoul Puzzle

It seems that for what you want and considering the costs the best would be a based cooper antifouling like coopercoat.

That way you would only need to put another antifouling in 10 years and considering that would save a lot of money in the difference between a lift and having the boat put safely on a berth on land, plus the price of 5 years of antifoulling (each 2 years), it seems to me that in your case a coopercoat would be a good solution.

Not personal experience with that but a friend uses it and is so satisfied that is trying to convince me to change for that on the last 7 years or so
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Old 08-03-2016, 11:31   #25
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Re: Antifoul Puzzle

"I don't want to have to start antifouling every year. Not just because of the cost, but because it will build up twice as fast."
Think about that for a minute. Ablative paints are designed to be worn off by the flow of water. The further you go, the faster you go (3000nm at ten knots?) the more the ablative is worn off.
And you only need to repaint when it is worn off. There is no build-up, because it is worn off and gone! If it is building up, it has not worn off and does not need repainting. So, do not worry about that.


It is possible your old paint was TBT (tin) based, those are banned in most countries for years now. Environmental issues have taken the best bottom paints off the market, and yes, all the new ones do indeed seem damned overpriced. To some extent that is simply something we all have to put up with, until someone comes up with a paint that works better, satisfies the environmentalists, and then decides to start selling it for less than "every cent you have".


Despite what Pollux said...I'd be very reluctant to try the copper+epoxy products. A few people swear by them, more people swear at them. I've seen one work very well one year, and not at all the next. I think there are still some unexplained variables that make using them still very much a gamble, fwiw.
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Old 08-03-2016, 12:01   #26
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Re: Antifoul Puzzle

Dockhead, Trilux is only medium strength anitfoul and doesn't have any copper in it so it will foul up the minute you stop. However, it is hard and I have used it on a stern drive and propellor previously with limited success. However, I could raise the drive and scrub it with a brush to get the green weed off.

Cruiser Uno has been changed to Uno EU and quoted for use up to 25 knots. I can tell you if you touch it with a soft brush you will have bristle marks in the paint after the first sweep. So that is off the list for you too although it works for me but I use twice the quoted amount needed.

Seajet 33 is also reasonably hard and will withstand a wash with a sponge. It failed two years ago for us, but some of that is down to moving house so the boat wasn't used much, the Solent was 20.c and they were dredging Portsmouth harbour so the yacht sat in a muddy soup for the season.

Micron Extra also dissolved for us despite using two tins on a 31 ft yacht and wasn't any better than the cheaper Uno. Two coats only just did a year with a mod season scrub.
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Old 08-03-2016, 12:57   #27
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Re: Antifoul Puzzle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
It seems that for what you want and considering the costs the best would be a based cooper antifouling like coopercoat.

That way you would only need to put another antifouling in 10 years and considering that would save a lot of money in the difference between a lift and having the boat put safely on a berth on land, plus the price of 5 years of antifoulling (each 2 years), it seems to me that in your case a coopercoat would be a good solution.

Not personal experience with that but a friend uses it and is so satisfied that is trying to convince me to change for that on the last 7 years or so
I know a few people in these water who have tried copper coating, at vast expense.

The results were mixed, and I don't think as many as half of the people had any luck with it.

That's not a scientific survey by any means, but I think I won't take the risk with this. I'm sure it works better in some waters, than in others, so I have paid special attention to people around here.
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Old 08-03-2016, 13:03   #28
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Re: Antifoul Puzzle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
Dockhead, Trilux is only medium strength anitfoul and doesn't have any copper in it so it will foul up the minute you stop. However, it is hard and I have used it on a stern drive and propellor previously with limited success. However, I could raise the drive and scrub it with a brush to get the green weed off.

Cruiser Uno has been changed to Uno EU and quoted for use up to 25 knots. I can tell you if you touch it with a soft brush you will have bristle marks in the paint after the first sweep. So that is off the list for you too although it works for me but I use twice the quoted amount needed.

Seajet 33 is also reasonably hard and will withstand a wash with a sponge. It failed two years ago for us, but some of that is down to moving house so the boat wasn't used much, the Solent was 20.c and they were dredging Portsmouth harbour so the yacht sat in a muddy soup for the season.

Micron Extra also dissolved for us despite using two tins on a 31 ft yacht and wasn't any better than the cheaper Uno. Two coats only just did a year with a mod season scrub.
Well, that's encouraging! Not!!!

Man, how I miss my Jotun Sea Queen. I just had not idea that antifouling could be such a problem


Your "mid season scrub" with the Micron Extra -- was that with a pressure washer?

Based on this, unless the Cruiser Uno is really much harder than the Micron Extra, then I might actually go with that again, understanding in advance that it will only last one year.

The good thing about it was that it did actually keep the growth off. When I dried out in October, after 5 months in the water (granted 3 months of that in the Baltic), there was just a light slime on the bottom.

Bah, how frustrating.
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Old 08-03-2016, 13:08   #29
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Re: Antifoul Puzzle

Imagine how frustrated you will be when you get your new aluminum boat!

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Old 08-03-2016, 13:49   #30
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Re: Antifoul Puzzle

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Here in the U.S. (and I suspect most, if not all, other countries as well) "commercial" boatyards do not have special dispensation to apply anti fouling paints that are unavailable to the recreational boating market. Commercial shipping use the same products (or at least the same kind of products) that you and I do and if a particular type of of paint is illegal to use on a recreation vessel, it is illegal to use on a commercial vessel as well.
I see. It all depends on where the boat is then.

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