Anti foul, bottom paint, soft, medium or hard?

[s/v 'Faith']

Roy,

Thanks for your insight. While I do not have TBT bottom paint on my boat currently I certainly might consider it.

The issue is not REALLY the environment. Why do I say that? Remember the thread on copper based paints a few months back? Fst supported banning the paint.... Until it became an issue that would not allow him to scrub boats and release it into the environment.

Many of these issues don't really seem to be about the big picture, but about making choices for other people to make THEM do what seems right to you.

I will even say that it is entirely possible TBT is more toxic then the alternatives. Might even be good that you have to go out of the US to buy and apply it (strange that the US is where it is made though huh?). The thing is that releasing a whole bunch of a less toxic substance that causes other problems may not be any better then a little bit of a more effective chemical.

I could go into other similar topics like use of coal and the expense and burden of compliance in this country while we export it elsewhere to be burned in the most pollution causing plants possible... But frankly such discussions are pointless.

I find it unfortunate that much of our current environmental policy does not address real issues... But the feel good policy we have is largely just that.

It is I like the person saving the planet driving their expedition to the recycling center... Feels good, but not very effective.

[s/v 'Faith']

Originally Posted by Guy

Where is this stuff made?

A large supplier is based in Clearwater Florida.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by Guy

Where is this stuff made?

SeaHawk Paints in Florida is the only manufacturer I am aware of that still produces a TbT paint.

[s/v 'Faith']

Originally Posted by fstbttms

Again, as Roy M points out, you seem not to care that the products whose use you are advocating are illegal in most places and extremely harmful to the environment in all places.

Significant exposure in concentrated environments reduced shell fish populations. What effect does regular scrubbing and release of the currently legal copper based paints have? What about the effect of fertilizer from runoff? Big story just today about how the Gulf of Mexico has a record size dead zone....

Even I every cruising boat on the east coast that went south applied TBT based paint, it would not be more then a small percentage of boats in any marina.

Europe bans copper based paints because they believe they are too toxic.... I suppose we should not use them either?


...maybe we all just need to hire divers to clean out boats daily instead?

[Roy M]

Montrose Chemical, a division of Stauffer Chemical, was the world's largest producer of a chemical used worldwide for killing nasty insects. This stuff is called DDT, and used to be the world standard for insecticides. They were located in Torrance, California, an industrial sector of greater Los Angeles. Every night, under cover of darkness, their workers power washed the "pans" containing the leftover DDT into the storm drains, which led into Santa Monica Bay. That was at least thirty years ago, but today, the ocean floor off of some of LA's most beautiful beaches is a toxic wasteland, where placards discourage the eating of bottom fish such as halibut. Only today are the seabird populations beginning to recover. I know about this stuff because my stepfather and other members of my family used to work there. The chemical companies made a killing on their profits. The rest of us got to enjoy the consequences. It shouldn't be a decision based on money, but it is that way because of the folks who don't care.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by s/v 'Faith';

Remember the thread on copper based paints a few months back? Fst supported banning the paint.... Until it became an issue that would not allow him to scrub boats and release it into the environment.

Not only is this statement patently untrue, it doesn't even make sense.

I like copper-based anti fouling paints. They work well. But the reason I, and other California hull cleaners, supported the proposed banning of copper paints in this state is because the alternative could have been (and still might be) a reduction in, or elimination of, in-water hull cleaning altogether. I never changed my position on this. You merely made up a story (or conveniently forgot the truth) to facilitate your advocation of a banned anti fouling paint.

[s/v 'Faith']

Originally Posted by fstbttms

Not only is this statement patently untrue, it doesn't even make sense.

I like copper-based anti fouling paints. They work well. But the reason I, and other California hull cleaners, supported the proposed banning of copper paints in this state is because the alternative could have been (and still might be) a reduction in, or elimination of, in-water hull cleaning altogether. I never changed my position on this. You merely made up a story (or conveniently forgot the truth) to facilitate your advocation of a banned anti fouling paint.

Remember this thread?

Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

You might remember I was not the only one who found a bit of "inconsistency" with your position....

I don't think you are a bad guy, I just think the position you are advocating is not sound. Using (less) of an effective product does not necessarily net a worse effect.

[s/v 'Faith']

I will go so far as to say that I think you are honorable in defending the position that you deem the best one.

My contention is that we all should make choices based on our research and facts. All bottom paints are bad (I would not wants to drink any of them).

Which is the lesser evil that I choose? Well, now it sounds more like politics.

Peace,

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by s/v 'Faith'

You might remember I was not the only one who found a bit of "inconsistency" with your position....

Just because you say that you found "inconsistency" in my position, doesn't mean inconsistency exists. What it means is you are trying to deflect unwanted attention off yourself.

I'd like you to back up your bold statement with some quotes from the thread you linked to, showing where I have ever changed my position on this. Failing that, I'd like you to stop attributing things to me that I never said or inferred.

I could certainly quote you vigorously making erroneous statements in that thread, that's for sure.

[s/v 'Faith']

Folks ca go look at the thread and draw their own conclusions.

I do wish that folks could make their own decisions about how to tend their ships, using all legal and available options without being vilified for the choice they make.

Copper, Tin, even Chinese anchors are all individual choices. I may or may not agree with them... But a Sailor has to decide what is right for their ship.

If you want to paint peanutbutter on you hull that is fine with me. Someone might call you names because a fish dies of peanut allergies... I am not going to join in with them (I might giggle a little bit).

Again,

Peace.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by s/v 'Faith'

Folks ca go look at the thread and draw their own conclusions.

While you cast unsupported aspersions and then run away. Classic.

[FSMike]

Fast Bottoms -
Thanks for your reply about the Bahamas.

Is it still legal to apply TBT based paints on aluminum hulls?

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by FSMike

Fast Bottoms -
Thanks for your reply about the Bahamas.

Is it still legal to apply TBT based paints on aluminum hulls?

I believe TbT is illegal for all uses in this country. There are non-tin alternatives suitable for use on aluminum however. Interlux Trilux 33 for example.

[s/v 'Faith']

Originally Posted by fstbttms

While you cast unsupported aspersions and then run away. Classic.

I have not run anywhere, I posted the link and I am suprised you brought it up...

And yes, Seahawk bottom paint with TBT can still be purchased in the Bahamas. I got quotes from 3 of the major boat yards in the Abacos on my way out.

Their prices to do the work were high (as one would expect in the bahamas) but one can do it themselves if they were inclined.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by s/v 'Faith'

I have not run anywhere, I posted the link and I am suprised you brought it up... :whistling

I'm surprised you posted it, it being chock full of your blathering on about how TbT paints are legal in the Bahamas, when clearly that is not the case. In fact, the basis of your entire argument supporting the use of TbT paints here in this thread is that it is legal in the Bahamas, which it clearly is not. Vague anecdotes about boatyards selling it last time you were there notwithstanding.