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Old 17-03-2010, 21:28   #31
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karl -
We've been using fire hose on our working anchor. We slip a section about 3-4 feet long over the rode. We put a small hole in each end and secure a strong length of cord in each hole, then use the cord to keep the hose in place on the rode. Like Ram, we acquire the hose from a local fire station. It can get pretty popular, so arrange it ahead of time when they're getting ready to buy new hoses.
I also have some firehoses which have yet to be used on the boat. I've removed the rubber inner lining on some thinking that the rubber would prevent water from penetrating to relieve any heat build up yet the outer shell seems a bit rough. Do you keep the hose with the inner linning intack?
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Old 18-03-2010, 00:21   #32
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I do things the old fashioned way , worming parcelling and serving. On my snubber it has been working great. The worming and serving done with 1/8" line and parcelling done with gro grain. Remember old adage, worm with the lay, parcel and serve the other way. Takes some time, but imo worth it. Where the snubber used to wear quickly there's no wear to speak of on the serving after many gales this winter.
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Old 18-03-2010, 06:06   #33
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There's one other thing when I was looking to redo my anchor rode. There are several advantages for switching to the maga braid lines vs the three strand that I had, but after reading I decided to stay with the 3 strand for the better chafe wear. Not even sure now as to where I read it and not sure if it's even true. I do know that 3 strand will stretch more than the braids which would imply just the opposite as to chafe wear. The superior chafe ability may have to do with the construction of the 3 strand. ??
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Old 18-03-2010, 09:17   #34
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I've removed the rubber inner lining on some thinking that the rubber would prevent water from penetrating to relieve any heat build up yet the outer shell seems a bit rough. Do you keep the hose with the inner linning intack?
Lancelot -
We've kept the firehose lining intact. I've seen some commentary concerning heat buildup but I've yet to detect it. Of course when it's blowing like stink things are usually pretty wet.
I also wonder if firehoses are designed to withstand pretty high temperatures considering their primary function? That wouldn't protect the rode from high temp of course.
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Old 18-03-2010, 09:43   #35
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Actually, the heat in question is internal, cause by the fibers absorbing energy.

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Lancelot -
We've kept the firehose lining intact. I've seen some commentary concerning heat buildup but I've yet to detect it. Of course when it's blowing like stink things are usually pretty wet.
I also wonder if firehoses are designed to withstand pretty high temperatures considering their primary function? That wouldn't protect the rode from high temp of course.
Typically, when a large rope is snapped at high load (not wear) the ends of the fibers are noticed to be melted.
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Old 18-03-2010, 10:49   #36
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I'm curious - Anybody know of any evidence related to actual heat related failures due to the type of chafing gear on the size vessels most of us are talking about? Or even without chafing gear? Or is this a worry dating back to "wooden ships and iron men" and manila lines?
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Old 18-03-2010, 11:19   #37
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Yes, the toe rail should be strong enough for a smaller boat. Not sure about a 41' Sceptre.

CS Johnson #48-510 Folding Rail Cleat
Stainless Steel Cable Hardware, Splice Line Turnbuckles, Anchor Chain Tensioners, Spring Loaded Door Latches: C. Sherman Johnson Co: East Haddam, CT
Thanks Gord. As Usual you are a wealth of knowledge.
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Old 18-03-2010, 11:26   #38
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I'm curious - Anybody know of any evidence related to actual heat related failures due to the type of chafing gear on the size vessels most of us are talking about? Or even without chafing gear? Or is this a worry dating back to "wooden ships and iron men" and manila lines?
I can't place it right now but Boats US did a study of this within the last few years.
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Old 18-03-2010, 11:37   #39
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Charlie:
Just noted that Johnson only rates their Toe Rail Cleat @ 2000# SWL; whereas a 41 footer should have hardware rated at least 3600#.
Johnson Marine Hardware Online Virtual Catalog: Page 50
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Old 18-03-2010, 13:19   #40
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Actually, I think it was practical sailor...

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I can't place it right now but Boats US did a study of this within the last few years.
... or at least they did one too. It is on their site.

However, I'm not sure I think the test was quite realistic. The sawing motion was exagerated in distance and the load was too light. Still, they tried. A real test would require a big rig.

They gave high marks to a thick hose, but beats me how you get it in the chocks, or rather I couldn't be bothered.
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Old 18-03-2010, 14:33   #41
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... or at least they [sic BoatUS] did one too. It is on their site [sic: Where?].

However, I'm not sure I think the test was quite realistic. The sawing motion was exagerated in distance and the load was too light. Still, they tried. A real test would require a big rig.

They gave high marks to a thick hose, but beats me how you get it in the chocks, or rather I couldn't be bothered.

"SAWING" is, IMHO, a very significant failure mode!
Fairleads should be avoided where practical, and cleats should be located as near to fairleads, chocks (or any chafe point) as possible to reduce sawing.

Can you/anyone direct us to the actual BoatUS Report?

Excerpted from BoatUS Hurricaine Preparation:http://www.boatus.com/hurricanes/HurricaneWarning.pdf

Chafe Gear!
Nylon stretches and absorbs shock, which
is good, but this stretching under tremendous
loads also works the line against
chocks and other contact points. Chafe
protectors are essential on all lines: at
a dock, at a mooring, or at anchor. At a
dock, lines are liable to abrade against
chocks, pilings and the dock itself. If your
chocks are large enough, fit a second,
larger-diameter hose around another hose
that fits snugly to the line. Drill holes in
both hoses, and use cord to tie them securely
to the line. In a pinch, you can use
a single hose.
On moorings or at anchor, the line
stretched over the edge of the rail can
create sufficient heat to melt the line
internally. Using hose to protect the line
can encourage heat related failure by not
allowing water to cool the nylon fibers.
One solution is to mount the chocks
directly at the rail so that the line won’t
be worked against a chock. Another is to
use polyester (Dacron) line, which `has
much less stretch, but is far more chafe
resistant than nylon. By using a polyester
line from the cleat through the chock and
then joining it with a nylon line (use two
eyes) to the piling or mooring, you can get
the best of both types of line—the chafe
resistance of polyester and the stretch of
nylon. An alternative is to use polyester
sleeves, which are available at chandleries
and will protect the nylon lines from chafe
while also allowing water to reach the
heated fibers.
If you need chafe protection quickly, use
duct tape (a lot) to secure several layers of
heavy canvas to the lines. It isn’t pretty,
but works surprisingly well.



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Old 18-03-2010, 15:02   #42
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And this is the Practical Sailor report

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post

"SAWING" is, IMHO, a very significant failure mode!
Fairleads should be avoided where practical, and cleats should be located as near to fairleads, chocks (or any chafe point) as possible to reduce sawing.

Can you/anyone direct us to the actual BoatUS Report?

Excerpted from BoatUS Hurricaine Preparation:http://www.boatus.com/hurricanes/HurricaneWarning.pdf


Perma Buoy Chafe Gear Lasts Longest

Yes, sawing is important - no argument. What I meant was that some chafing gear shifts with the movement of the line and prevents wear in that way; the rubbing is between the smooth inside of the gear and the line, not between the gear and a knife edge that it cannot withstand. However, if you saw through too great a range, further than a rope can move in a chock, then the test is not realistic. I think you need a big load and small movement... but that would have been a difficult test stand to build.

But there is no one-size-fits-all. Different boats have different motions.
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Old 18-03-2010, 16:31   #43
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Our working anchor stays on its anchor roller when deployed, rather than being led through a chock. It occurs to me that this could help reduce chafe because the roller will move somewhat with the rode as it alternates.between tight and slack.
You think?
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Old 18-03-2010, 17:34   #44
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Cat, no bridle?

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Our working anchor stays on its anchor roller when deployed, rather than being led through a chock. It occurs to me that this could help reduce chafe because the roller will move somewhat with the rode as it alternates.between tight and slack.
You think?
I can't use my rollers because they are on the bows and the rode angle from the roller is great. The PO did that (used a piece of line to the other bow with a rolling hitch) and they scuffed the rode good, too.

On the other hand, if it is a central roller, doesn't it hunt around?
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Old 19-03-2010, 17:00   #45
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How about short lengths of chain?

Just curious. Many swear by chain for their rode, primarily for chafe resistance (and secondarily for mass, but given what is lost in wave attenuation I don't think the math works).

Though chafe gear makes better sense in most places, I wonder if boats with thorny problems wouldn't be well served by a short bit of chain on rough pilings, metal or concrete dock edgings, or the like. I don't think I'd fancy it in a chock or on the gel coat!
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