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Old 10-10-2011, 16:53   #31
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Re: Anitfouling Bottom Paint - Your Recommendations

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Originally Posted by C Skip R View Post
SeaHawk Islands 44.. you cannot buy it in the US. Its made in St Pete, Fl. Buy it, bring it home and have a boatyard put it on. Going on 3 yrs. Still have bottom cleaned during summer every 3 weeks.
Again, TBT-based paints are illegal for use or application in the U.S. and with good reason. Shame on you for using it and advocating it's use. If you have a yard willing to apply it, I'd sure like to know about it. A phone call to the EPA is in order.

From the Sehawk Paint web site:

This product may not be sold or applied in the United States.

Islands 44 Plus
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Old 10-10-2011, 16:58   #32
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Re: Anitfouling Bottom Paint - Your Recommendations

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Again, TBT-based paints are illegal for use or application in the U.S. and with good reason. Shame on you for using it and advocating it's use. If you have a yard willing to apply it, I'd sure like to know about it. A phone call to the EPA is in order.

From the Sehawk Paint web site:

This product may not be sold or applied in the United States.

Islands 44 Plus
You need to check around. There is nothing illegal about US boat yards putting it on. They just cannot sell it. Yes I love it and recommend it to anyone that wants a bottom paint that works extremely well.
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Old 10-10-2011, 17:06   #33
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Re: Anitfouling Bottom Paint - Your Recommendations

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You need to check around. There is nothing illegal about US boat yards putting it on. They just cannot sell it.
So your position is that Seahawk is mistaken when they advise that their own product cannot be applied in the U.S?

Edit:

OK, I did some checking. At the very least you are in violation of Florida state law.

2010 Florida Code
TITLE XXXII REGULATION OF PROFESSIONS AND OCCUPATIONS
Chapter 487 PESTICIDE REGULATION AND SAFETY
PART II FLORIDA PESTICIDE LAW(ss. 487.011-487.175)
487.171 Classification of antifouling paint containing organotin compounds as restricted-use pesticides; prohibition of distribution and sale.

(3) Distribution, sale, and use of antifouling paints containing organotin compounds with acceptable release rates shall be limited to dealers and applicators licensed by the department in accordance with this part, to distribute, sell, or use restricted-use pesticides. Such paint may be applied only by licensed applicators and may be applied only to vessels which exceed 25 meters in length or which have aluminum hulls.

http://law.justia.com/codes/florida/...7/487_171.html

So please tell me again how it is legal (or ethically justifiable) for you to have Island 44 applied to your 43' fiberglass boat?
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Old 10-10-2011, 17:43   #34
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Re: Anitfouling Bottom Paint - Your Recommendations

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That's not how anti fouling paint works, at least not any paint that's legal for use here. The cuprous oxide toxin in most anti fouling paints isn't available to higher fouling organisms (like barnacles) in a high enough dose to kill them. It works by making the paint "taste" bad to them, that's why they don't attach. If you have barnacles on your anti fouling paint, the paint isn't working.
I think you mean "that's how bottom paint doesnt work..." ! But really, I'm not theorizing, I'm talking about actual experience Florida to Grenada. Bottom paint sometimes less than 3 months old, Barnacles so thick ofter 3 weeks at anchor that there were literally thousands of them to scrape off. No idea if they were dead or alive. Are you saying that Cuprous Oxide and TBT are used because barnacles dont like the taste? First time I heard that... The EPA doesnt like it because it does KILL things... not taste bad to them.... But maybe there is something to learn here, all we need is someone to find out what barnacles dont like the taste of! That ought to be pretty simple research....

"Our previous bottom paint was Micron 66. For the first year, cruising from Chesapeake Bay to Grenada, the bottom was clean as a whistle and needed no scrubbing or wiping. It needed wiping/scrubbing every month or so after that, and became ineffective at the end of two years."
For the OP, I think this is a pretty good recommendation for M66 over Trinidad. His experience over the same area as me. Assuming he stayed at anchor for a while rather than moving constantly.
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Old 10-10-2011, 17:52   #35
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Re: Anitfouling Bottom Paint - Your Recommendations

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Are you saying that Cuprous Oxide and TBT are used because barnacles dont like the taste? First time I heard that... The EPA doesnt like it because it does KILL things... not taste bad to them....
These toxins may kill in large doses but the reason TBT paints have been banned is that it causes deformities in the larval stages of shellfish as well as other nasty side effects. Even though its use was stopped on most pleasure craft in this country (certain CF users notwithstanding) many years ago, TBT is still measurable in our coastal waterways.

The reason cuprous oxide is coming under increased scrutiny (and outright banning in at least one U.S. state) is that it is being found in the water in concentrations that exceed federally mandated levels, not because the marinas are littered with dead animals, which they are not.
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Old 10-10-2011, 17:59   #36
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Re: Anitfouling Bottom Paint - Your Recommendations

[QUOTE=fstbttms;793803]So your position is that Seahawk is mistaken when they advise that their own product cannot be applied in the U.S?

Edit:

OK, I did some checking. At the very least you are in violation of Florida state law.

2010 Florida Code
TITLE XXXII REGULATION OF PROFESSIONS AND OCCUPATIONS
Chapter 487 PESTICIDE REGULATION AND SAFETY
PART II FLORIDA PESTICIDE LAW(ss. 487.011-487.175)
487.171 Classification of antifouling paint containing organotin compounds as restricted-use pesticides; prohibition of distribution and sale.
(3) Distribution, sale, and use of antifouling paints containing organotin compounds with acceptable release rates shall be limited to dealers and applicators licensed by the department in accordance with this part, to distribute, sell, or use restricted-use pesticides. Such paint may be applied only by licensed applicators and may be applied only to vessels which exceed 25 meters in length or which have aluminum hulls.

487.171 Classification of antifouling paint containing organotin compounds as restricted-use pesticides; prohibition of distribution and sale. :: PART II FLORIDA PESTICIDE LAW(ss. 487.011-487.175) :: Chapter 487 PESTICIDE REGULATION AND SAFETY :: TIT

So please tell me again how it is legal (or ethically justifiable) for you to have Island 44 applied to your 43' fiberglass boat?[/QUOTE\\

True, it cannot be sold in US. Doesn't mean you cannot purchase it outside of US. Its my choice as well as many others in Fl because the paint works. As far as boatyards applying it many do so they must be licensed to apply. Don't think they would apply if they weren't.
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Old 10-10-2011, 18:11   #37
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Re: Anitfouling Bottom Paint - Your Recommendations

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Originally Posted by C Skip R View Post
True, it cannot be sold in US. Doesn't mean you cannot purchase it outside of US. Its my choice as well as many others in Fl because the paint works. As far as boatyards applying it many do so they must be licensed to apply. Don't think they would apply if they weren't.
Purchase it by the drum for all I care. The bottom line is that it is illegal for use on any boat that is not either aluminum or over 25 meters in length. Yours is neither.

And then there's the ethical consideration. This stuff has not been banned worldwide because it's good for the environment. It's not. We as boaters should be doing all we can to help reduce our aquatic footprint, not going out of our way to enlarge it. What you are doing is akin to pouring your used motor oil down the storm drain. You know it's wrong yet you continue to do it because it's easier, more convenient or cheaper than doing the right thing.
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Old 10-10-2011, 23:13   #38
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Re: Anitfouling Bottom Paint - Your Recommendations

To apply TBT paints in Florida a boat yard must have a pesticide application license. If they apply it incorrectly they can be fined and lose their license. I have no doubt that some will apply TBT paint to the wrong boats but it is against the law. For several years I was licensed to sell TBT paints in Florida. I had to keep track of each can and could only sell it to a licensed applicator. It was a major PITA so I just quit selling it. There is also no need to use TBT paints anymore. The current crop of legal slime preventers works just as well or better. I have high hopes for the new Interlux Pacifica. It doesn't even use copper but early tests have been very positive. I'll probably give it a try in February 2013. I'll let you know what I think of it in 2014.
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Old 10-10-2011, 23:31   #39
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Re: Anitfouling Bottom Paint - Your Recommendations

There are zillions of opinions on this subject...and remember, like me, the people with opinions only have experience with a small range of product and hull environment...some of the variances come from the fact that boats are anchored or moored in different areas and climates. Just because someone has had a good or bad experience with a particular product, does not mean that product is for you...too many other variables!

Do not look for tricks, additives, short cuts, miracle products, or any other good-sounding money-saving products.

Remember proper hull preparation and proper application are just as important as the product you chose.

Don't do this yourself unless you really know what you are doing. Make sure that if you hire someone to do this, that it is his full time occupation...not some house painter looking for extra money.

We are 3/4ths of the way around, mostly on the equator and have been in some of the world's filthiest waters (India). The only product we have used is Micron 66 until the last time when we used Micron 77. The primary difference between 66 & 77 is that you could ruin 66 with fresh water and 77 is fine with fresh water...this is our experience and may not be applicable to you.

Hope this helps,

Bill
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Old 11-10-2011, 00:04   #40
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Re: Anitfouling Bottom Paint - Your Recommendations

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TThere is also no need to use TBT paints anymore. The current crop of legal slime preventers works just as well or better. I have high hopes for the new Interlux Pacifica. It doesn't even use copper but early tests have been very positive. I'll probably give it a try in February 2013. I'll let you know what I think of it in 2014.
I have been diving boats using zinc-based paints like Pacifica since the summer of 2010. I didn't need a year to find out they don't perform anywhere near as well as a copper-based paint. This week I will be cleaning and taking underwater pix of "Santana", Humphrey Bogart's old S&S 55. She is now wearing Interlux Ultima Eco, which is a non-metal anti fouling paint. It uses a combination of Econea and a slime blocker. I'll report here on the efficacy of that product.

Here are some pix of an Alerion 28 that was wearing Vivid Eco, a zinc-based paint that Pettit has decided not to market in California. As mentioned perviously, it did not perform particularly well. The really interesting thing about these zinc/Econea paints is that they are photoreactive, meaning the deeper you go, the dirtier they get. These pix were taken when the bottom was about two or three months old and had been cleaned at least once:

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Old 11-10-2011, 04:32   #41
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Re: Anitfouling Bottom Paint - Your Recommendations

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When they say it won't wash off with water, they mean easily. On a boat hull, it'll be gone in a day. Where will it go? Into the bay. Yes, what a wonderful thing that'll be for the marine environment, every plant and creature covered in Lithium grease
seems a grease approach is already being sold called prop shield

Why use Propshield? - Benefits of Propshield Antifouling Grease

Quote:
Made from renewable resources (NOT OIL BASED)
The base product is produced from the grease which naturally occurs in sheep wool and is a by-product of the wool production process. The sheep are not harmed in any way and when it is hot this is a positive benefit to them.
The packaging we use is also recyclable and so are the drums that the raw materials are packed in when they are delivered to Giraffe UK. We have gone to extreme lengths to ensure that this product is as natural as possible whilst maintaining its effectiveness in the marine environment.
of course they will pump the green natural aspect of 'natural grease' as if greases are un natural.

I think I will do a test, take a board and apply a thin layer of lithium molybdenum grease from a tube the kind you buy at walmart. I will do two types, one will have it applied and then lightly wiped off with a rag, the other will be smeared as if you appied it using your hand and the residue left.
We will see what happens and if it stays on etc....
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Old 11-10-2011, 06:56   #42
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Re: Anitfouling Bottom Paint - Your Recommendations

here is a test board.
One side is painted with normal red fence paint
other side is bare wood.
one section in the middle on bare wood has PL premium polyurethane Construction Adhesive as I am curious as to what happens with that and growth.

the other areas will have the lithium moly lube and leave areas on both sides bare in the center as a control.

The metal pulley, which will hold the board vertical, I will coat one side with lithium lube and the other not coated.

I will hang it off the dock in Hampton Back river by LAFB where we do get a lot of barnacles growing.
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Old 11-10-2011, 07:41   #43
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Re: Anitfouling Bottom Paint - Your Recommendations

We applied 4 coats of 66 prior to departing NZ. It was OK but not spectacular - as soon as the boat stopped we started developing a fine coat of slime that (I bet) would lead to serious fouling should we have stayed put.

We used other types too:
- Hempel (Blakes) Mild Dynamic (pretty hopeless in tropics),
- smthng Dutch made in Galicia (completely hopeless, no longer made),
- small amounts of Trinidad, hard (very poor),

The 66 was probably the best of what we have tried out this far.

Maybe the answer is: use the hard paint and scrub, or use the soft paint and repaint every year (if stationary), every 2 years (if moving).

b.
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Old 11-10-2011, 09:52   #44
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Re: Anitfouling Bottom Paint - Your Recommendations

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Maybe the answer is: use the hard paint and scrub, or use the soft paint and repaint every year...
In regions of moderate and high fouling (California, for instance), all anti fouling paints need to be cleaned periodically, regardless of type. Ablative paints foul every bit as quickly and to the same degree as their hard counterparts.
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