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Old 11-05-2016, 14:34   #16
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Re: And so it Begins: The Teak Deck Removal Project

Completed the leaking teak removal process on my Choy Lee. The core of the Choy Lee deck is teak and in area's the glass had delaminated from the teak, when you walked on the foredeck it felt like a trampoline as well as a few area's adjacent to the cabin sides. For the spongy area's (delamination and wet teak core) the fix was to through bolt the deck with large flat washers either side and drill the core with many holes and fill with West System epoxy. A slow process but a joy watching the epoxy soak into the core. The hard part of the project is ensuring the core is dry and this was achieved by placing 350ml plastic bottles over the cored holes sealed to the deck for two thirds of the opening and unsealed on the low side. The core sweats into the bottle with the moisture running down the inside of the bottle and out the unsealed area at the low side. Black plastic and the storm covers were installed to aid the dry out. In total 10 litres of West system was soaked into the deck over a period of 6 months. Spongy deck is gone, deck is stiff and no more leaks. Managed to achieve all this on a swing mooring.
Never underestimate the time a project like this takes.
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Old 11-05-2016, 14:41   #17
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Re: And so it Begins: The Teak Deck Removal Project

Hi,
I replaced the deck on my 1984 Hudson Force 50 in 2014. It is not as bad as you think.

We cut off the teak and old deck user a circular saw and a zero clearance disc on the grinder. The balsa core was good 2 feet each side of the mast from the bow to the cabin. The sides of the cabin and rear helm were a cross between shovel it off and vacuum it up. We anticipated this before we stated and removed all the balsa to the bottom fiberglass. We cleaned this up and added a 1x1 ounce layer, 3/4 inch foam core (far superior to marine ply), 2x17 ounce 45 weave on top of the foam core, with a 1x1 ounce top layer, epoxy coating, kiwi all grip and paint.

Material cost was under 5k as we bought bolts and industrial resin from an industrial supplier. Have lots of actetone available.

Labor was 30 hours for removal, and 120 hours for replacement.

I have pictures if you want to e-mail at kwilson.rdcinvestmentcorp@rogers.com
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Old 11-05-2016, 14:43   #18
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Re: And so it Begins: The Teak Deck Removal Project

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Rich, looking a long way down the road, before you splurge on Kiwi Grip, lookinto some of the industrial equivalents. We ended up using an Aussie product called "Colourmeric Sporte Coat'. Nasty name, but a very good product, similar end result to KG, but at a much lower price (180 AUD for 15 litres). Ours has now been on for 6 years and has had no issues other than the generic problem with keeping it clean... true for KG as well. nd it iis the best non-skid we have ever encountered, wet or dry.

Cheers,

Jim
OOps! That nasty name should have been "Acrylmeric Sport Coat". Probably doesn't matter, 'cause I doubt if it is sold in the States, but one could have a look at their site for comparisons.

Jim
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Old 11-05-2016, 17:55   #19
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Re: And so it Begins: The Teak Deck Removal Project

We lived for 6 months in the boat yard last summer so what's another 6 month project with a wife, two teenage kids and a cat aboard?
Once you are certified as crazy…you just go for it.

Fortunately all 230lbs of me can jump up and down on our deck and not see any flexing or feel soft spots, so I'm hopeful that the project scope will only grow by 50%, rather than a 200% whoop ass on me. I know of a handful of leaks around a few stanchions and deck gear where I'm sure the core is suspect, but I'm hoping the rest of the core is in good shape. But it's a project on a 1977 Boat...who knows how deep down the rabbit hole it will lead me.

I really like Minaret's idea of using the saw with the blade depth set to just that of the teak planks. Exactly the "Been there...done that" type of advice I was hoping for. The teak is in such good condition after being hidden under glass for the last 20yrs that I'm going to try and save as much as I can because…heck it's expensive teak after all.

Are there any thoughts on the desired thickness of the Marine Plywood I should use?
My gut says to put back the same thickness as the teak I am removing...but that could be a little bit of overkill perhaps?

I was looking at either West Systems or MAS Epoxy for the job, I like the idea not getting killed by the vapors by using MAS. But in the end...strength and durability trumps toxicity and cost to me. On a job like this...it's all about the labor "costs" (my 17yr old son and my time) so I'm going to spend what needs to be spent on the best quality materials and not penny pinch. Besides, it's my wife's money, I don't have any as a poor marina vendor, but I do have the time between service and sales calls, plus a project like this will keep me away from the MMGW Thread...ha ha ha

I will take lots of photos of the project and keep folks updated for other suckers...ah...I mean...Proud teak deck boat owners.

Holy Smokes...thanks so much for the link and info Kevin!
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Old 12-05-2016, 19:55   #20
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Thumbs up Re: And so it Begins: The Teak Deck Removal Project

I did the epoxy saturation method on the side decks twenty years ago and as long as you re-caulk every 8-10 years and do a little patch work it has worked well. But alas nothing last forever on a boat...
My back seems to be healing well and will be replacing aft deck and walk ways cores with Nida core and re-glassing. This will let me put E-glass for support under hardware and add some new hardware. The loss of plywood weight will allow for thicker glass and no more chance of rot.
And yes I will be epoxying 3/4 Teak back, non-skid just dose not feel right under my feet after 26 years with Teak. And no screw holes. Thank you G. brothers and west sys.
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Old 13-05-2016, 01:57   #21
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Re: And so it Begins: The Teak Deck Removal Project

I tried to salvage the teak that I pulled and found it to be a poor use of my time overall. The strips are thin and uneven ( that's why the decking was worn out!), have screw holes every 2' or so, and were covered in tarry bedding compound. By the time I cleaned up the decking and milled it flat I never had much more than some 1/4" x2"stock. Don't miss any fasteners before running it through a planer...
I might keep a some for a trim piece or small project but I sure wouldn't try to save the whole deck. Just my experience. Good luck with it!
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Old 13-05-2016, 03:37   #22
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Re: And so it Begins: The Teak Deck Removal Project

Looking at your forward hatch/skylight, I would really be looking at that. Most of the damage to Vigah, other than the chainplates and stanchion base leaks came from water intrusion to the overhead from the dead seal around the hatch and skylight. This then migrated long distances to appear in areas I couldn't fathom how the water got there.

I did have a couple areas of core saturation from the teak where I removed the planking, removed some skin, re-cored, and did the reverse. Yes, I did have to replace a few boards, but all in all it is just a time demanding job. If you can get the deck under cover it really makes the job easier, as weather becomes less of a factor. BTW, I had to remove 100's of slotted flat head screws. These were replaced with phillips after drilling the counter sink deeper to accept a new wood plug. I developed ways to deal with screws that broke.

Your deck looks a 100% better than mine did before I started. Oh, and by the way a note for everyone; One of the most important things for refitting a boat is to have easy access to her, i.e. Not traveling hours each way to work on her. I am lucky in that I live 10 mins from the boat and have an area with all the tools to fabricate what I need on site.

One of two areas where I re-cored. Stbd aft cockpit | Sailing Vessel Vigah

Good luck whatever you decide.
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Old 13-05-2016, 04:54   #23
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Re: And so it Begins: The Teak Deck Removal Project

With all the other things that need to be done on a boat ??????? How old are you and when would you like to go sailing? I would worry about burn out!
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Old 13-05-2016, 05:35   #24
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Re: And so it Begins: The Teak Deck Removal Project

On plywood thickness, including vs. other cores. It's worth doing both a cost & weight comparison, of what the tally would be by going with plywood covered in glass, vs. some of the other available cores. As if you can get away with glass thicknesses on both, which are close to the same, there are other cores available for $2-$4/sqft. And they're Much lighter. Plus, many are rot proof, unlike ply, which wicks water.

The catch being, that you need to lay down blocking for where your hardware will go, before glassing over the core. Though if you goof, & need to add more hardware, it's not a crisis. As I've done plenty 3m long jib tracks on cored decks. Including replacing the core with G10, & redoing the skins & paint.
The flip side being, that one has to be meticulous about bedding hardware into ply cored decks, so...

Also, with some digging, you can find epoxy for much cheaper than WEST. Like in the $5-$6/lb range. Just do a bit of testing with it prior to buying a big batch. But the savings can really add up.

Ditto on shopping around for glass cloth. I got Triax, & Uni for about $1lb, by visiting the warehouse of a distributor. And working with them on what they needed to get rid of. After having called ahead once or twice, to establish a POC, plus a bit of rapport.
That, & being flexible in terms of knowing what types of glass would work for my job. And, of course, buying in bulk helps too. They even threw in $250 worth of free Carbon Fiber, just by asking the right person at the right time

So, establishing contacts, & the leg work is worth it, if you don't already have primo connections. And you're on a budget.


Good luck with the project, & thanks for sharing it!


PS: As stated, salvaged Teak is valuable. For example, the mentioned 2'x1/4" pieces could be laminated into some nice, light weight, composite floor boards. Or just onto some marine ply. With or without Holly strips (or similar).
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Old 13-05-2016, 05:53   #25
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Re: And so it Begins: The Teak Deck Removal Project

I don't know about Rich, but I am 71. It's really about attitude. For me it's a good form of therapy. Don't get in a rush, kind of like not leaving port in a hurry.
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Old 13-05-2016, 07:06   #26
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Re: And so it Begins: The Teak Deck Removal Project

A fellow on the dock next to me had a similar problem with a Lefeaver. He used a product called Sanitred to seal his decks and provide a non skid surface.
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Old 13-05-2016, 10:09   #27
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Re: And so it Begins: The Teak Deck Removal Project

We removed the only teak deck, for deck on our 40 yo Taiwan trawler and this is what we found: ply under fiberglass under ply deck, under teak.

Circular sawed & scraped teak off, most of the ply was good under the teak, so filled bad spots with resin &/or foam board to come level. Resined down green foam board over the ply, then glass mat, then 1/4 foam, then glass mat. Finally a coat of kiwi grip.

We left the teak edge boards to provide the nice curved shape near the edges of the deck. Used polyester resins. Live near, sometimes you just gotta put down some epoxy and leave it to dry for the next day. Wear 2 or 3 layers of latex gloves so you can pull off the nasty one and not be bare handed. Cover or tape everything around, we had to get numerous epoxy hand prints off the stanchions and other finished areas.
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Old 15-05-2016, 18:28   #28
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Re: And so it Begins: The Teak Deck Removal Project

So first you pry up some of the teak planks and you expose the top layer of the fiberglass and balsa wood lasagna. The black goo on top of the fiberglass is the adhesive that helped hold down the teak



Now we need to find out what is under that top layer of fiberglass, so we need to cut a hole. We hoped to find nice dry 39yr old balsa wood.
AKA...I'm a dreamer....



The moment of truth (or sorrow) is when we pulled up the test patch and found sopping wet balsa wood. When we cut through, this is actually what we found the following layers:
1. Teak Deck
2. Fiberglass about 1/4" thick
3. wet balsa core about 3/8" thick
4. A thin single layer of glass about 1/16 thick
5 Another balsa layer about 1/8 thick
6 Finally the bottom layer of fiberglass.
I'm not sure how thick this bottom layer is because I don't want to mess with it yet and poke a hole into the boat! But I'm sure it is not strong enough for me to stand on without falling through!
I will probe it a little more later.
All said, it's about 1" to build back up. I'm still not sure if I should use marine plywood or some other type of FRP fiberboard...have to do a bit more research on cost vs benefits.


So now that we know our fate (a complete core removal and replacement) the question became what is the fastest way to rip it out...enter our friend...Mr Skilsaw



The skilsaw cuts through the teak planks and top layer of fiberglass like butter, so then "all we have to do" it scrape out the wet soggy balsa wood core to expose the bottom later of fiberglass.


Ripping things up is always the easy part...so give me 1-2 weeks and that will be done. Now cleaning it up and then putting it back together, that's another story. The Goal data is Sept 1st...place your bets because that's a pretty big deck, but I lose my slave labor 17yr old son back to school then...so that is the current lie we are telling ourselves. A boat owner is constantly telling lies to himself, the problem is when other people (like your wife) start believing them.
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Old 15-05-2016, 21:06   #29
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Re: And so it Begins: The Teak Deck Removal Project

So here is the "New Core" material I'm looking at using rather than marine plywood.

Core-Cell A500 Plain Foam Sheets

Any thoughts, Warnings, affirmations?
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Old 16-05-2016, 03:11   #30
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Re: And so it Begins: The Teak Deck Removal Project

It's definately unfortunate that you have to do the whole core removal job as well.
The bright side is you will be able to do a proper job that you know will take care of all your worries in the future! I'm not knowledgable about which particular foam is best but I do think that I'd use foam rather than plywood. It would be much lighter and easier to use. Best of luck with the project!
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