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Old 17-08-2014, 15:51   #916
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

Not to be a pessimist but have you worked this out fully?

The second pull line will start by running under the boat so at first you will be lifting with the top pull until it is close to laying on its beam. Can that pole lift high enough?

Then as you draw in pull 2 you will bring the boat very close to the pole again. can you get it close enough to the pole?

Finally it appears you only have one pole - Is this "balanced" in the middle of the CG? Everytime I have tried stuff like this the bow or stern end will walk off and get out of alignment.

Maybe tending lines off the bow and stern so someone can guide the longitudinal axis without getting too close.

Good luck and be careful!
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Old 17-08-2014, 17:10   #917
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

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Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
Not to be a pessimist but have you worked this out fully?
Still figuring it out as I go. There's virtually no reference material available. My old engineering text books only cover lifting radio towers with gin poles. Scant few examples on the web either. This is one of the few I've found.

Boat Yard 26

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The second pull line will start by running under the boat so at first you will be lifting with the top pull until it is close to laying on its beam. Can that pole lift high enough?
The pole is 12' high at the pulley. That's as high as I can go. The boat with rolling frames will be 11' across the beam. 13' 6" diagonal across the rolling frame. It may need some coaxing to go past 45 degs.

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Then as you draw in pull 2 you will bring the boat very close to the pole again. can you get it close enough to the pole?
I can pull it right to the pole if needed. Right now there's about 10" between the pole and the side of the boat.

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/f...GOPR0015-8.jpg

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Finally it appears you only have one pole - Is this "balanced" in the middle of the CG? Everytime I have tried stuff like this the bow or stern end will walk off and get out of alignment.
I have no idea. The only way I can figure this out is to look at pics of other TW28's that have been flipped. They're all stern heavy so I've put the pole about 1' aft of center. I am putting in 3 eyes about 6" apart. I can switch eyes to see if it lifts it straight. Of course none of the TW28's that have been build have been stretched a meter either.

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/f...z/DSCF4877.jpg

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Maybe tending lines off the bow and stern so someone can guide the longitudinal axis without getting too close.
We'll have two lines attached to the frame, mostly to control the bottom from sliding to much towards the pole (over rotating). We can use them to control any alignment issues. There will be two tracks staked to the ground for the frames to slide in. They will help with alignment as well.

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Good luck and be careful!
Thanks for looking in. It helps a lot getting great feedback like yours. This is going to be a learning experience.
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Old 17-08-2014, 17:35   #918
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

Sounds good, Rick.

Just don't get any crew anywhere near where they can get under the boat.
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Old 18-08-2014, 09:02   #919
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

Starting to assemble the rolling frames around the hull. It's going together pretty much as I figured it would.





The forward most frame will be a bit more involved. It doesn't fall on a form so I'll have to build one in as I go. A lil' wee lunch break then back at it.

Standby.....

Web log updated: http://she-kon.blogspot.ca/2014/08/lott ... orkin.html
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Old 22-08-2014, 10:20   #920
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

Been dealing with a sick cat (four legged furry kind) for the last few days so not much got done in the boat shed. I think there's a couple of updates on the blog that I forgot to post here.

M/V She:Kon: Cat Emergency

Thanks for looking in.
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Old 23-08-2014, 10:42   #921
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

More rolling frames today. Hotter 'n Hell in the shed. I keep waiting for this Polar Vortex thing to happen.



Web Log updated: http://she-kon.blogspot.ca/2014/08/roll ... inued.html
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Old 24-08-2014, 10:09   #922
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

Gettin' there, slowly but surely. The frames are almost done. I need some more 2X6's for the longitudinal braces. Will pick those up tomorrow. Will also have to take a quick trip to Princess Auto for some of the rigging I'll need to pull this thing over. Decided to go way over capacity of a few things just to be sure.



Started to disassemble some of the strongback that we put together 3 yrs & 1 week ago!



More pics on the web log: http://she-kon.blogspot.ca/2014/08/inch ... loser.html
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Old 25-08-2014, 04:21   #923
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

I'm still excited Rick nice and easy does it
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Old 25-08-2014, 11:34   #924
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

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I'm still excited Rick nice and easy does it
Me too Warby! Excited and a little apprehensive!

Installed the longitudinal beams (if that's what you can call them). These will take the pull when I start to turn the hull. I increased them to 2X6's, screwed & bolted to the turning frames.



Three sides of the lifting frame will get pulled on during the flip so I'll rig all three the same.



The more I get into this the more I realize I know nothing about what I'm doing! Should have paid more attention in those engineering classes in college.

Web log updated: http://she-kon.blogspot.ca/2014/08/shou ... ntion.html
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Old 26-08-2014, 09:49   #925
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

Increased the capacity of some of the lifting rig. Pulley blocks are 8 Ton and the cable winch is 2 ton. I'll use the cable winch if the electric one proves it's not up to the task (worried about it not being able to hold the weight).



37 C or 99F in the boat shed at noon. No work in there today.

The list of stuff on my 'End of Boat Project' yard sale is getting longer!
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Old 26-08-2014, 11:06   #926
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

Rick...

Take that stuff back, and get two lever blocks, and two 15 foot shots of chain and a couple good shackles.

Amazon.com: 3 Ton LEVER BLOCK Ratchet Chain Hoist Lift Puller: Home Improvement

A come along isn't going to like unwinding the load after she goes goes over center.

I do a bit of cardboard aided design for things like this... Namely go find a big flat parking lot and mark off the angles that will need to happen. Bring a weight to hold a cable down and swing the arc of the diagonal height and make sure that you've got enough length of cable and chain to lower it back down the other side. This normally ends up being a lot longer distance than it appears, unless you can slide the pivot point closer to the lift point once its on its beam ends.

Adding snatch blocks cuts the length of the cable run in half for distance traveled, which means you need to have a way to belay the cable off and move ahead with the hook.

It is a bit annoying coming up with a way to hold something up that wants to fall uncontrollably while adding a shot of chain to a come along in order to lower it... That and it takes two people to spool the cable on smoothly just to let it out again.

Lever blocks will free spool once the load is off. Takes a tenth of the time to re-arrange the rig.

With a 20 foot come along on a snatch block you end up with about 6 feet of movement for each reset of the rig. The radius of the two blocks eat a foot, the length of the blocks plus the hook end eat another foot and a half.

Have you thought about hiring a crane? It wouldn't take much to cut a hole in the roof and drop the cable right in the shop... Then ride the basket up and patch the roof after you are done. Down here its $200 an hour with a $400 minimum for the big guns...


Zach
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Old 26-08-2014, 13:05   #927
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

Hey Zach

Thanks for the advice. I really do appreciate it so please don't think I'm pooh poohing your input. I'm a little too far along to change direction now. I thought about a crane but it's too tight for one of the smaller ones to get in between the houses. Last quote I got was $400/hr for one of the real big ones plus their road time, 1.5 hrs each way at $200/hr. It would have cost me a grand plus 13% tax.

The hull isn't really that heavy. With the rolling frame on there now I think it's about 1300 lbs. It's well supported and we have enough control lines etc. to keep it from getting away from us as long as we keep it in contact with the ground. There's just enough height & width to the shed to allow it to roll. The only possible place it could catch is my miter saw and I'll remove that from the shed before we start.

The electric winch has 50' of cable. I calculated maximum extension from upper pulley to rolling frame at 12' give or take an inch so I'll need about 30'. It won't have to come off and be relocated at all. I have second lifting point in place to pull it over as the first hoist controls the lowering of the frame. If the winch won't hold the weight (I'll test that first) the cable ratchet has 16' of cable so it'll work as well.

If I had had more space I would have built a gantry and used two chain hoists but there just wasn't enough room.

Thanks again. I really do appreciate it.
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Old 27-08-2014, 11:56   #928
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

Was doing some more Friggin' with the Riggin' again today. The 8 ton pulley blocks I got aren't exactly ideal for this situation so there'll be some more 'Backyard Eyeball Engineering' going on!



I think the correct Engineering term for the picture above is 'Cluster F*ck!'. Yup, that's right. Nailed that one right on the head!

Got more ponderin' to do on how to fix that mess.

Web log updated: http://she-kon.blogspot.ca/2014/08/frig ... again.html

Standby.....
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Old 28-08-2014, 08:38   #929
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

This morning I finished Friggin' with my Riggin'! I bought a 1' section of 5/16" chain to hang the pulley block from. Worked perfectly. Replaced the hook with two 5/16" Quick Links and it now has freedom of movement needed.



Also finished up the last beam on the turning frames.



So that's it. Turning frame & rigging is DONE! Next step is the dissembly of the strongback & forms so I can lower the hull & turning frames to the floor.

More pics etc. on the web log. http://she-kon.blogspot.ca/2014/08/done ... iggin.html
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Old 28-08-2014, 15:33   #930
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

Getting close! Drum roll please!
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