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Old 07-08-2014, 11:48   #886
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

I should have had anti-fouling on the bottom of the keel by now but things sorta went off the tracks yesterday. I started to lightly sand the keel & bottom to prep it for anti-foul and immediately burned right through the primer. Doh! Anyhow, what to do, say 'screw it' or 'roll on more primer? I don't have any primer left so off to the store in Ottawa I go! *sigh*

I do apologize for the delay in flipping this tub. All the good intentions in the world don't add up to a hill of beans in my world!



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More sandinsanity to come. Standby....
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Old 07-08-2014, 12:05   #887
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

Personally, I'd float it first before bottom paint. The waterline may not be what you think, especially if your adding more then what's in the plans. Then calculate for gear and supplies.

I had to move my water line out 3" amidships after adding a bulk head, water tank, fuel tank and water maker.
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Old 07-08-2014, 12:08   #888
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

Quote:
Originally Posted by delmarrey View Post
Personally, I'd float it first before bottom paint. The waterline may not be what you think, especially if your adding more then what's in the plans. Then calculate for gear and supplies.

I had to move my water line out 3" amidships after adding a bulk head, water tank, fuel tank and water maker.
Hey Del

I'm just putting some on the bottom of the keel while it's easy to do. I won't finish the anti-fouling until just before it goes in the water. The mfgr says this is ok. Not a big deal.

Most of these that have been launched have been really light in the bow so an actual water line or boot strip will come much later. I'm sure by the time Lori adds the dishwasher, clothes washer, ice maker, central vacuum and her four sewing machines I'll be lucky to have any freeboard left!
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Old 07-08-2014, 18:01   #889
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

Quote:
Originally Posted by knottybuoyz View Post
I should have had anti-fouling on the bottom of the keel by now but things sorta went off the tracks yesterday. I started to lightly sand the keel & bottom to prep it for anti-foul and immediately burned right through the primer. Doh! Anyhow, what to do, say 'screw it' or 'roll on more primer? I don't have any primer left so off to the store in Ottawa I go! *sigh*

I do apologize for the delay in flipping this tub. All the good intentions in the world don't add up to a hill of beans in my world!



Web log updated: M/V She:Kon: Best laid plans of mice and men often go astray.

More sandinsanity to come. Standby....


I didn't want to rain on your parade, but saw that one coming. I usually do four coats sprayed minimum, and still need to spot prime a few burn throughs. Rolling generally means you need way more coats than shooting. No barrier coat planned?
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Old 08-08-2014, 02:49   #890
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
I didn't want to rain on your parade, but saw that one coming. I usually do four coats sprayed minimum, and still need to spot prime a few burn throughs. Rolling generally means you need way more coats than shooting. No barrier coat planned?
That stuff was billed as being a high build primer and a barrier coat. I just ran out of it so only got 2 coats on. I thinned it to mfgr recommendations and couldn't get it to spray. HVLP, 2.0 tip, 45 PSI at the inlet & 7 CU Ft of air. Spray pattern was about 2-1/2" and I had to go extremely slow to get any coverage. The stuff was just too thick or I wasn't following the directions properly so I gave up and rolled it on.

I've bought another kind recommended by a fellow boat builder, an industrial underwater primer and will get two more coats on the bottom & keel. The sides will have to wait till the boat is upright.

I have noticed that after a few days since application it is a heck of a lot harder than when I first started to sand it. Maybe I didn't wait long enough.
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Old 08-08-2014, 09:29   #891
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

Quote:
Originally Posted by knottybuoyz View Post
That stuff was billed as being a high build primer and a barrier coat. I just ran out of it so only got 2 coats on. I thinned it to mfgr recommendations and couldn't get it to spray. HVLP, 2.0 tip, 45 PSI at the inlet & 7 CU Ft of air. Spray pattern was about 2-1/2" and I had to go extremely slow to get any coverage. The stuff was just too thick or I wasn't following the directions properly so I gave up and rolled it on.

I've bought another kind recommended by a fellow boat builder, an industrial underwater primer and will get two more coats on the bottom & keel. The sides will have to wait till the boat is upright.

I have noticed that after a few days since application it is a heck of a lot harder than when I first started to sand it. Maybe I didn't wait long enough.



Here's what I'm getting at:

Strike your waterline now. Then apply several coats of Interlux 2000 to your bottom. Catch the chemical bond window after the final coat and chem bond the anti fouling to the barrier coat. Apply a second coat of anti fouling. Voila, your bottom is done, with no more sanding! And with higher quality product.


Not familiar with the product you are using, but it sure is dirt cheap.
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Old 08-08-2014, 12:16   #892
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
Here's what I'm getting at:

Strike your waterline now. Then apply several coats of Interlux 2000 to your bottom. Catch the chemical bond window after the final coat and chem bond the anti fouling to the barrier coat. Apply a second coat of anti fouling. Voila, your bottom is done, with no more sanding! And with higher quality product.

Not familiar with the product you are using, but it sure is dirt cheap.
As you know this is a low budget project. Around here Interprotect is $100/gallon. If I had deeper pockets I would spring for the best but on a meagre gubment pension that ain't gonna happen.

I think the product I used is pretty good. It's as hard as nails now after a few days curing in the shed. Maybe I was just a little too eager to get going. There's no way I could have hit the time to hot coat the antifouling. It's just too big a job for me alone.

I've followed the recommendation of a fellow boat builder and purchased some commercial grade underwater epoxy primer. I sanded the old primer to key it and started to roll on the new coat this afternoon. It was just a wee bit too warm in the shed this afternoon and the stuff started to kick quickly. Thought I had more roller sleeves but ran out. Will get back at it tomorrow.





This stuff has a much more generous overcoating window so it's easier for me to work with. I'm going to coat the keel & bottom to the drawn water line then just a dash of antifouling on the bottom of the keel and them I'm going to flip this pig over.
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Old 09-08-2014, 06:11   #893
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

I've set my sights on doing a resin infusion on the inside of the hull. The purpose is to avoid all the sanding & associated mess of doing a hand lamination. What I'm trying to figure out now is how much epoxy I'll need to infuse the whole inside of the boat. These are my estimates (rounded up) so far. Have I possibly missed anything? Anyone with any experience doing this and is willing to share experience, advice or possible suppliers of the consumables is more than appreciated.

......................glass........wt.......total
Bottom Panels...30 sq yd...45 oz...85 lbs
Side Panels...... 21 sq yd...20 oz...27 lbs
Bulwarks............5 sq yd...20 oz...6.5 lbs
Transom............2 sq yd...45 oz...6 lbs
Keel Sides..........7 sq yd...45 oz...20 lbs
Keel Bottom........2 sq yd...45 oz...6 lbs
Peel Ply............68 sq yd....2 oz...8.50 lbs
Flow Media........68 sq yd....2 oz...8.50 lbs
Lines...............200 ft........48 oz...3 lbs

Approx. 168 lbs or 19 gallons of epoxy.
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Old 09-08-2014, 09:38   #894
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

Took the day off to rest my back. Sciatica kicking up again. Must be all the ups & downs on the ladders taking it's toll on my wrecked old body.

Anywho, leaves one with a lotta time to think. Sometimes that's a good thing, sometimes it's not!

So today's thoughts are concerned with how I'll actually attempt to infuse the inside of the hull.

I've been scouring Youtube for resin infusion vids of boat hulls. Most mfgr's infuse the inside of a boat hull from the bottom of the keel up to the gunnels. There is one particular video showing what the mfgr calls a 'Serial Infusion'. See it here.

http://youtu.be/_J6SGZZolbU

It got me thinking. On a large infusion there's always a lot of risk involved, not just the money, but the requirement for a consistent fully infused part. If i infuse the inside of my boat hull, 31-1/2' long by 10' wide I'll have to cover just over 600 sq ft in one pull. By dividing up the pull into smaller segments I can better control the results I think.

I put together a crude animation to illustrate what I'm thinking about. I do apologize it's not Pixar quality!

Serial Resin Infusion Boat Hull - YouTube

All feed lines, spiral wrap etc. will be 1/2". I may not actually use valves but just kink the feed & vacuum lines as required.

Thoughts, comments, suggestions? Always glad to have some feedback from anyone.
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Old 10-08-2014, 11:08   #895
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

I'm done with primer & bottom coat. There's nothing left I have to do to the boat before I flip it. Probably a couple of weeks till that happens. Can you contain your excitement?
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Old 10-08-2014, 11:25   #896
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

Quote:
Originally Posted by knottybuoyz View Post
Took the day off to rest my back. Sciatica kicking up again. Must be all the ups & downs on the ladders taking it's toll on my wrecked old body.

Anywho, leaves one with a lotta time to think. Sometimes that's a good thing, sometimes it's not!

So today's thoughts are concerned with how I'll actually attempt to infuse the inside of the hull.

I've been scouring Youtube for resin infusion vids of boat hulls. Most mfgr's infuse the inside of a boat hull from the bottom of the keel up to the gunnels. There is one particular video showing what the mfgr calls a 'Serial Infusion'. See it here.

Fibermax Composites presenting "Serial Infusion" - YouTube

It got me thinking. On a large infusion there's always a lot of risk involved, not just the money, but the requirement for a consistent fully infused part. If i infuse the inside of my boat hull, 31-1/2' long by 10' wide I'll have to cover just over 600 sq ft in one pull. By dividing up the pull into smaller segments I can better control the results I think.

I put together a crude animation to illustrate what I'm thinking about. I do apologize it's not Pixar quality!

Serial Resin Infusion Boat Hull - YouTube

All feed lines, spiral wrap etc. will be 1/2". I may not actually use valves but just kink the feed & vacuum lines as required.

Thoughts, comments, suggestions? Always glad to have some feedback from anyone.
infusion is a fantastic way of fabrication if using cored materials.
it is also well suited to factory conditions where you have a temp stabalised environment,and a ready made vacum system that additional lines can be added if needed.

but have seen $100,000 dollar hulls scrapped due to f'ups,my advice start small and work up.
layup,peelply and bagging is very labor intensive if only doing small sections,and not ideally suited if you are laying up using plywood as your core material
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Old 10-08-2014, 15:56   #897
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

I'm excited Rick!
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Old 10-08-2014, 17:00   #898
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

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I'm excited Rick!
Easy there big fella!
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Old 10-08-2014, 17:05   #899
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

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my advice start small and work up.
layup,peelply and bagging is very labor intensive if only doing small sections,and not ideally suited if you are laying up using plywood as your core material
I'm thinking I'll do the box keel first. That's the most challenging geometry to the whole hull other than the bow thruster tube that'll be a PITA. The bottom & sides are pretty simple after that. Here's what one looks like that was hand laminated. The only difference is mine is 1 meter longer.



Now that the outside of the hull is glassed, faired and painted I don' think I'll have a problem pulling a full vacuum on it.

Another view.

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Old 10-08-2014, 17:19   #900
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

Quote:
Originally Posted by knottybuoyz View Post
I'm thinking I'll do the box keel first. That's the most challenging geometry to the whole hull. The bottom & sides are pretty simple after that. Here's what one looks like that was hand laminated. The only difference is mine is 1 meter longer.



Now that the outside of the hull is glassed, faired and painted I don' think I'll have a problem pulling a full vacuum on it.

Another view.

as a relatively cheap option you can use a farm yard type milking pump as your vacuum pump.
hydroponic suppliers are a good source for plastic sheeting, hose and fittings at 1/4 of the price of specialist epoxy suppliers.
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