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Old 06-05-2014, 18:36   #751
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

Quickfair is tough to spread, as it starts kicking off so quickly. I use Awlfair or alexseal.

Since you don't have enough air... an 8 inch pad sander works well too. I like the Makita 9227c, variable speed. It isn't as easy to run as a mud hog as the weight is balanced out of the handle... but you can do quite a bit of work mowing down known high spots with one. I say known high spots, because it will remove material just as quickly from low spots.

Treasure the sanding pads. Anything you will use to fair something in flat, needs to always be stored with the pad facing up... and never tip the sander up at an angle. Yes you can dig down to the low on edge... but once the pad dishes out and turns convex you can no longer sand a flat surface.

To pull hull sides I use an 18 foot 1x1 aluminum box tube with three to four guys. One mixes and applies from the center and the two outside guys pull up. Two to three passes, filling the worst of the lows gets an 18 foot stretch of the boat "fair" but not smooth in one day. Where the box tube rides, needs to be smooth top to bottom... Think about a fair station as drawn on the plan. If it has a low spot at the station where the batten contacts, you will have a low the entire length of the batten. The verticals have to be right, where the batten contacts before you can see what is fair and what is not.

On tighter radius I use 1x1 fir battens or 3/4x1 battens in varying lengths.

Aluminum yardsticks work once you get to the smaller holes or tighter radius. I like the non-anodized ones, because like the 1x1 box tube they leave black marks like pencils do on the high spots.

For a crew of 1 man, I use a pink masons string and a line of screws at the stem and transom that pulls the whole length of the boat and a bright light. Pull the string tight and every 6 inches or so along the height parallel the waterline, mark where the string touches, fill where it doesnt. This is slower than 3 guys, but the only way I've found that one man can get something perfectly fair. A light bulb out of a flourescant light fixture works well to find wee small high spots, roll it along and where it rocks and rolls is a small high. You need to get good at rocking and rolling and making an X mark with a pencil of the perfect center of rotation. Works for battens too... Wherever the furthest thing out that it contacts first defines the radius you have to build out to. If there is a small knot to one side or the other of the ideal radius you end up fairing in a bulge.

I'll scribe a 3/4 piece of plywood to fit where the radius is good following the pink line, cut it on the bandsaw and pull down a 4-6 foot area parallel to the waterline, and pull from where it is known good down to the waterline, if I am by myself.

Once I'm down to 1 foot wide holes, I use a 1 foot putty stiff sheet rock knife and over fill the low spots. These are the spots where the long board spans over and "won't fit." Mark them, fill them... batten and string them. I mark the entire surrounding with a pencil and keep the longboard pressure very light so I don't make a flat spot around where I filled trying to sand down to the low spot. If you take your pencil line... put it back. You may have to pull a thin "Glaze" around the whole area you sanded otherwise you end up with 1 foot square flat spots.

You can't use a DA sander and find those holes, as it fits inside them. After each puttying, use the longboard first and mark the lows.

Once you are fair in 40 grit, you can start thinking about making her smooth... 100 grit is coarse enough to fair with, but it will take you a lot longer than 40 or even 60 grit will.

I do most of the sanding with the long boards until I have marks I can see... Once I determine something is a high spot, and not a good spot surrounded by a low... I come back with the biggest sander that will fit the radius and mow it down. 10-15 seconds... re-test with the board.

The biggest thing to think about with sanding, is to work on your timing so that you sand 10 passes before overlapping a half a pass... Or move your feet 6 inches after every 3rd long board pass over the same spot.

With machine sanding in the 40-80 grit stage on a hull side you can go vertically, only... Overlap when you move over a half a pass... but try to do it quickly and with no pressure. Otherwise you'll dig a low line at the waterline and shear from lingering at the end of each pass, and each time you move over a half a pass.

Any bulk material removal you do side to side will carve a low spot or flat spot along the top of the radius.

Your arms can't operate a long board very well, anything but side to side or 45 degrees down from the shear... Which spans whatever low spots get cut in on the vertical by machine sanding.

Horizontal flat spots on a radius mean your batten doesn't fit right any more as you raise and lower it... and your longboard "jumps" when it crosses the edge of the flat.

Flat spots make you think something is high to each side of it, when infact it is low... but low because it is no longer "Round" and following the same shape as the rest of the contour. This is a big distinction to make.

Always shoot for keeping 80% of the surface the same, on each sanding. Don't fill outside your lines, and sand from the good to the bad... always and forever.

Cheers,

Zach
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Old 06-05-2014, 19:31   #752
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

Nice. I prefer an alu angle iron to box beam, usually. Screed with the point of the "V"...
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Old 07-05-2014, 02:23   #753
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

Wow!

My head is swimming in a cloud of sanding dust!

Going to take awhile to digest all that but I think I see where it's going. This is a one man show and there's nobody that I've been able to lure in with the offer of free beer & bratwurst. Some fella's on another forum told me I should go to town with a pickup truck and stop at the local day work center and get a load of undocumented democrats. I think I know what he meant!
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Old 07-05-2014, 04:41   #754
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

If you can get to Australia with the beer and bratwurst I'll give you a full weekend And pay half the petrol (gas?)
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Old 07-05-2014, 05:34   #755
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

I used a material used for furnace insulation, very light weight but super abrasive. It would quickly form to curves but would wear thru leather gloves. Used a slightly different color of fairing each layer to define lows. Lots of work but absolutely smooth hull
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Old 08-05-2014, 12:26   #756
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

Man, I would love to have a crew of guys to do this job. I can really appreciate those who do it for a living, crazy as they may be!



It's part science, part art and mostly torture! Web Log Updated: M/V She:Kon: The Dark Arts
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Old 14-05-2014, 16:42   #757
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

Sanding around the boat in 6 hrs. Onto the transom!



Nice a$$ Baby! Even if it is upside down!
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Old 14-05-2014, 17:31   #758
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

Just a FYI, we have dayworkers at the home depot, going rate is $20/hour,
I said how about $10, they laughed and walked away.

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Originally Posted by knottybuoyz View Post
Wow!

My head is swimming in a cloud of sanding dust!

Going to take awhile to digest all that but I think I see where it's going. This is a one man show and there's nobody that I've been able to lure in with the offer of free beer & bratwurst. Some fella's on another forum told me I should go to town with a pickup truck and stop at the local day work center and get a load of undocumented democrats. I think I know what he meant!
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Old 14-05-2014, 18:34   #759
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

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Just a FYI, we have dayworkers at the home depot, going rate is $20/hour,
I said how about $10, they laughed and walked away.
Sheez! I don't even make $10/hr!
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Old 21-05-2014, 08:49   #760
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

I've stuck up a video of unboxing the Flexicat tools. They were graciously lent to me by the US supplier. The manufacturer is still having trouble getting inventory out the door of their new production facility. At least now I can try them out.

M/V She:Kon: Flexicat's, not Flexy Cats

I gave them a good try this morning and will have another video tomorrow. I'm not sure I have a good method worked out yet but boy o' boy do they cut hard!!! The increased surface area takes a proportionately larger amount of muscle to get them to work too! Muscle I don't got (yet)!

I can say after about 3 hrs sanding with them this morning that they're certainly going to do the trick! I really like the 22 x 4-1/2" sander over the 33 x 2-3/4" sander. More on that later.

Thanks.
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Old 21-05-2014, 18:54   #761
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

Flexicats! Luv 'em! I think I might have gone a little overboard with my gloating review but here it is complete with another riveting video.

Web log updated: M/V She:Kon: Is all the hype true?

I'm starting to think I might actually be able to do this but I'm feeling the pain now!
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Old 21-05-2014, 20:39   #762
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

Glad those are working out for ya! Did you loosen the bolts on the handles so that they rotate freely? It helps. The 33" x 4 1/2" is the standard for fairing.
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Old 22-05-2014, 02:14   #763
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

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Glad those are working out for ya! Did you loosen the bolts on the handles so that they rotate freely? It helps. The 33" x 4 1/2" is the standard for fairing.
Yes I did minaret. Being right handed I found if I tightened up the left one a bit and left the right one loose it felt like I had better control of them.
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Old 24-05-2014, 09:45   #764
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

Putting some mileage on the flexicat's now. Just made the first pass over the stbd side. That's about 140 sq ft. Got some low's to fill especially near the chine where the tape edges overlap. I knew that area would be a PITA.

The sanding is getting a little easier! If you can believe that!
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Old 24-05-2014, 10:23   #765
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

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Originally Posted by knottybuoyz View Post
The sanding is getting a little easier! If you can believe that!
I've always noticed the outer surface of epoxy was a little harder but once you got through the sheen then it cut pretty well.
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