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Old 04-06-2013, 07:22   #556
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing wrong. I laid up the sides yesterday and got a so so result.

Shed was approx. 60 Deg F, Marinepoxy with slow hardener.

Peel ply removed and I have quite a few dry spots that weren't there last night.



I noticed a lot of epoxy bleeding through the peel ply and again this wasn't there last night.



I'm guessing it was too cool and this allowed the epoxy to bleed down through the laminate leaving dry spots. They're worse up near the leading edge. I'd love to use a faster hardener but I don't think I'd have enough time to work it in before it kicks. It would take me about 10 mins to work in a litre of epoxy. I was working on two fronts having started from the middle of the boat working out to the ends. Any ideas?
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Old 04-06-2013, 10:27   #557
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

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Originally Posted by knottybuoyz View Post
I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing wrong. I laid up the sides yesterday and got a so so result.

Shed was approx. 60 Deg F, Marinepoxy with slow hardener.
Yeah that's a bit cool for slow hardener. I've always used fast hardener unless I know for sure it going to be 70 + F. The problem I have here (Seattle area) is that the nights dip down into the 50's in June and the 60's in July so unless I'm really having a few hot days in a row the slow catalyst stays on the shelf.

With large batches it can get a bit touchy but if you keep the tubs in cold water it should be OK and start setting up once it's spread out.

Or you could use a series of 250W lights over the length of the job during the night.
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Old 04-06-2013, 10:55   #558
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

Silly me Del. The weather man told me it'd be in the 70's and I was foolish enough to believe him. I was half way into the job and couldn't stop before I realized it wasn't going to warm up!

We'll endure. Some sanding and filling it'll be ok. *fingers crossed*
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Old 04-06-2013, 19:35   #559
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

Classic bleed-out. Try putting a little colloidal silica in it, or even mill fibers. This is one reason epoxy is often bagged.
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Old 07-06-2013, 10:00   #560
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

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Classic bleed-out. Try putting a little colloidal silica in it, or even mill fibers. This is one reason epoxy is often bagged.
Hey Minaret

I ground out some of the bubbles and added a little colloidal silica to the patches. It kept the epoxy in place giving it time to kick. Thanks for the tip! When we epoxy the stbd side tomorrow I'll add some to the epoxy I roll out on the leading edge which is where I had the trouble before. Again, thanks.
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Old 07-06-2013, 17:08   #561
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

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Originally Posted by knottybuoyz View Post
Hey Minaret

I ground out some of the bubbles and added a little colloidal silica to the patches. It kept the epoxy in place giving it time to kick. Thanks for the tip! When we epoxy the stbd side tomorrow I'll add some to the epoxy I roll out on the leading edge which is where I had the trouble before. Again, thanks.


Of course. Mill fibers (WEST 403) increase hang even more without reducing wet-out capacity. Not familiar with your resin system so I don't know what your viscosity is like. Is it laminating resin? Why are you using the expensive peel ply? The blue stuff without lines costs half as much and works just as well for casual use. Peel ply is pricey too. Are you both squeegeeing and rolling? Sorry to butt into your thread but I do try to help...
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Old 07-06-2013, 17:28   #562
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
Of course. Mill fibers (WEST 403) increase hang even more without reducing wet-out capacity. Not familiar with your resin system so I don't know what your viscosity is like. Is it laminating resin? Why are you using the expensive peel ply? The blue stuff without lines costs half as much and works just as well for casual use. Peel ply is pricey too. Are you both squeegeeing and rolling? Sorry to butt into your thread but I do try to help...
That's fine Minaret. I appreciate the help. Butt away!

I'm using Marinepoxy from Boat Builder Central.

"A marine epoxy resin ideal for fiberglass laminations, bonding, fillets and putties. Excellent wet out of fiberglass, low viscosity, easy to use 2:1 ratio."

The peelply is Econoply J from Airtech. The last time I ordered two rolls of J they sent me one J and one Econostitch (no added cost) with the tracers instead. About $35 difference and other than the tracers it works the same.

Squeegeeing and rolling the ply after wet out. Occasionally I have to go back over some areas with the paddle roller and work some of the goopy areas into the dry spots.

I don't have any milled fibers on hand. I'll try to pick some up for the next round. There's 4 more layers to go on the keel, 1 X 1808 and 2 X 12oz 0/90 and 1 X 10 oz satin weave. The bottom panels have 2 more layers, 1 X 12 oz 0/90 and 1 X 10 satin weave. The sides have 2 more layers, 1 X 12 oz 0/90 and 1 X 10 oz Satin weave.

I have help for tomorrows session on the stbd side so I'll have more time to concentrate on bubbles and getting everything wetted out properly. I should know better than trying to do it myself but there aren't always extra hands around to help. Temps are supposed to be in the mid 70's.

Thanks for your help. I really do appreciate it. I'm learning as I go.
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Old 07-06-2013, 17:45   #563
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

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Originally Posted by knottybuoyz View Post
That's fine Minaret. I appreciate the help. Butt away!

I'm using Marinepoxy from Boat Builder Central.

"A marine epoxy resin ideal for fiberglass laminations, bonding, fillets and putties. Excellent wet out of fiberglass, low viscosity, easy to use 2:1 ratio."

The peelply is Econoply J from Airtech. The last time I ordered two rolls of J they sent me one J and one Econostitch (no added cost) with the tracers instead. About $35 difference and other than the tracers it works the same.

Squeegeeing and rolling the ply after wet out. Occasionally I have to go back over some areas with the paddle roller and work some of the goopy areas into the dry spots.

I don't have any milled fibers on hand. I'll try to pick some up for the next round. There's 4 more layers to go on the keel, 1 X 1808 and 2 X 12oz 0/90 and 1 X 10 oz satin weave. The bottom panels have 2 more layers, 1 X 12 oz 0/90 and 1 X 10 satin weave. The sides have 2 more layers, 1 X 12 oz 0/90 and 1 X 10 oz Satin weave.

I have help for tomorrows session on the stbd side so I'll have more time to concentrate on bubbles and getting everything wetted out properly. I should know better than trying to do it myself but there aren't always extra hands around to help. Temps are supposed to be in the mid 70's.

Thanks for your help. I really do appreciate it. I'm learning as I go.


Sounds like you got it handled. Good luck and happy laminating! Don't forget your respirator.
Heat is easier to make than cool, so for big layups I like slow or even ultra slow or tropical hardener with some heaters for the cure cycle. Babysit it and wet out the bleed out edge again with thickened if necessary, while putting extra heaters or lamps in the trouble zone. Be careful, as with slow hardener the heat can change viscosity enough to actually increase runout instead of preventing it. I like to wait a bit before applying a lot of heat.
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Old 07-06-2013, 17:46   #564
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

Hey, thanks for the link. Great prices there!
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Old 07-06-2013, 17:49   #565
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

I must own this device!



https://store.airtechintl.com/htm/defaultnetscape.htm



I think we've had this conversation before.
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Old 07-06-2013, 17:51   #566
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

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Hey, thanks for the link. Great prices there!
On a 15 gal kit I can have it shipped up here and pay about half of what Canadian distributors want.

I've got heaters ready for tomorrow. It'll be cool when we start and likely warmed up into the mid 70's by noon.

Should I warm the epoxy a little bit before we start. It'll be about 70 degs coming from the house to the shed. I'm worried about shortening the pot life too much if I get it too warm. I use a drywall mud pan when I use the larger rollers.
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Old 07-06-2013, 17:57   #567
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

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I must own this device!

https://store.airtechintl.com/htm/defaultnetscape.htm

I think we've had this conversation before.
I use a $3 'Spy Ear' device I found on eBay. Works great for finding those leaks in a vacuum layup!
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Old 07-06-2013, 17:59   #568
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

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On a 15 gal kit I can have it shipped up here and pay about half of what Canadian distributors want.

I've got heaters ready for tomorrow. It'll be cool when we start and likely warmed up into the mid 70's by noon.

Should I warm the epoxy a little bit before we start. It'll be about 70 degs coming from the house to the shed. I'm worried about shortening the pot life too much if I get it too warm. I use a drywall mud pan when I use the larger rollers.


I wouldn't risk it. You want your layup fully wet for awhile so you can make it nice. It looks to me like you may be laminating a bit dry. Make it nice and wet until you can roll out all the air and its almost transparent. Then squeegee off the excess resin to make it lean. Then apply the peel ply last. It will also help to soak up excess resin and give you a leaner layup. Are you doing 60/40 by weight?
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Old 07-06-2013, 18:03   #569
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

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I use a $3 'Spy Ear' device I found on eBay. Works great for finding those leaks in a vacuum layup!


Yeah, I use a slightly more expensive hunter's listening device. Are you laying a lot of resin on the surface before laying down your first ply, or putting the ply in place dry and then wetting out?
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Old 07-06-2013, 18:06   #570
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Re: And So it Begins . . . Knottybuoyz' New Project

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I wouldn't risk it. You want your layup fully wet for awhile so you can make it nice. It looks to me like you may be laminating a bit dry. Make it nice and wet until you can roll out all the air and its almost transparent. Then squeegee off the excess resin to make it lean. Then apply the peel ply last. It will also help to soak up excess resin and give you a leaner layup. Are you doing 60/40 by weight?
That's pretty close to what my measurements are telling me I've got. Maybe just a little less. Closer to 50/50.
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