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Old 06-12-2008, 06:33   #1
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Anchor Chain

I am planning to up grade my ground tackle from a 20# Danforth with 1/2" three strand nylon rode to a 35# Manson Supreme and 5/6" high test chain.

The anchor and chain are one size above that recommended for my 32' boat. My plans are basically extended term coastal cruising south Florida and possibly the Bahamas. Under "normal" conditions I would think this would be adequate. Because of my minimal experience I would appreciate you input.

Also, can you recommend an anchor roller to accommodate the Manson anchor?

Thanks, Duke
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Old 06-12-2008, 07:31   #2
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You should be fine but keep the old anchor for a backup or different bottom situations, or even for just a lunch drop.

Most cruisers carry at least two or three different anchors. Almost every location and weather condition is different requiring.

If your in (protected) coral you'll need to learn another method. You may want to read this thread Only One Anchor
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Old 06-12-2008, 08:40   #3
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In the Sea of Abaco, you will want to use two anchors off the bow each night. The sand bottom is OK holding, but two anchor are better than one.

Jack
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Old 06-12-2008, 08:57   #4
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Anchor Roller

Also, can you recommend an anchor roller to accommodate the Manson anchor?

I had the same issue as I am planning a similiar type anchor. The Rocna guys recommended a bow roller that would be suitable for a Bruce type anchor. For you size boat West Marine or other chandlers should work. As I am planning on a single anchor I ended up buying the largest roller that Imtra made, not cheap.
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Old 06-12-2008, 11:37   #5
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In the Sea of Abaco, you will want to use two anchors off the bow each night. The sand bottom is OK holding, but two anchor are better than one.

Jack
I cannot believe I am going to disagree with a Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor, but I guess in these forums more opinions are usually helpful. So If I can respectfully disagree with the routine use of 2 anchors to increse holding under any sort of normal circumstances. (I have no problem with multiple anchors to limit swing, or multiple anchors set in different direction when say a change of tide is expected. Or if hurricane type winds are predicted). I feel carring a large enough single anchor is a much better solution.

The probems I see with 2 anchors are:
They can be very difficult to recover quickly if you start dragging in strong winds. Only a couple of months ago I watched a proffesional crew with 2 tenders spend 2 hours tring to untangle 2 anchors. There was only 10K breeze. This was a much bigger yacht, but in any size vessel its hard to do quickly particuarly when there is only 1 anchor winch and 1 peron up front.
As a yacht swings it will tend to put most of the force on one anchor.To illustrate what I think happents with a hypothetical example. Suppose a yacht is exerserting 1000KG force in very stong winds. If we use a single ancor that only holds 650Kg force the boat will drag. What happens if we use 2 identical anchors are we OK now to 1300Kg? Many people think so, but as the boat swings one way it puts peraps 75% of the force on one anchor (750KG) this anchor drags. As the boat swings the other way it puts 75% of its force on the second anchor so it too drags.The boat is still dragging. The holding has only incresed from 650Kg to a little over 800KG. Better than a single anchor, but noware near as good as a slightly larger single anchor. If the primary anchor was the same weight as the 2 anchors it would be no contest at all.
Anyway just my 2c worth. (note I am talking generally I have no experience of the area. If there is a current reversal 2 anchors set in opposing direction can be helpfull)

(also I asume there was a typo in the original post and the chain in is 5/16)

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Old 06-12-2008, 12:41   #6
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77

Not sure, but he may have been suggesting two anchors in series, not on two separate chains.

A common hurricane set up is attaching the one anchor to the head of the main anchor with a scope of chain between, dragging two anchors on one chain.

HTH.........................._/)
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Old 06-12-2008, 16:27   #7
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It'l work

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Originally Posted by Duke 48 View Post
I am planning to up grade my ground tackle from a 20# Danforth with 1/2" three strand nylon rode to a 35# Manson Supreme and 5/6" high test chain.
I have a 30' Morgan OI and went w similar but 5/8 8 plaite, 30' of chain and a Rocna 15k. So you will likely be very happy with yours.
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Old 06-12-2008, 17:12   #8
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Duke,
That setup should work just fine in most bottoms. However, you might consider the use of BBB chain rather than High Test. The extra strength of the high test is unlikely to ever be needed, it is considerably more expensive, and there may be issues with loss of strength in re galvanizing (I've had conflicting advice from "experts" on this subject.
Do be sure to ALWAYS use a snubber line when anchoring on chain, and be sure that it is long enough to provide considerable stretch.

We replaced our 30 kg Bruce (that we were generally satified with, except in coral rubble and in weed) with a 27kg Manson Supreme. In its first year of use, the supreme has done well in use from Tasmania to central Queensland, New Caledonia and Vanuatu. Only failure was inability to penetrate weed over hard sand near Barrenjoey in Broken Bay NSW... but this is a notoriously difficult bottom.

Good luck with it.

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Gladstone, Qld, Oz
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Old 06-12-2008, 17:47   #9
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Quote:
Under "normal" conditions I would think this would be adequate. Because of my minimal experience I would appreciate you input.
What is normal? I would say in normal situations you are over the top. That isn't a bad place to be. If the weight of the chain plus the anchor tends to make the boat sail poorly then you are too far over the top. Too much weight in the bow is a bad thing.

On the two anchors ideas. Carry two because you could lose one. It won't be on purpose but no anchor is not the best place to be. You can sail for a while but eventually you'll need to sleep or do something else. A fouled anchor can require you to let it go free. A spare rode even if all rope is a good thing too. An anchor without rode is worthless. You may have use for it in some other situation. Two anchors on one rode can be useful. Options are better than none. On a 32 ft boat you can't carry all the options for everything. Some things must be left behind. Your boat can't carry everything. You need to set priorities or get a 45 ft boat. Knowing when to pick your battles is also an important consideration. Decisions you make one day may have consequences in a few more days that you can not undo.
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Old 06-12-2008, 20:22   #10
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Many thanks for the feedback. I really appreciate the help.
Duke
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Old 07-12-2008, 09:42   #11
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Noelex...I agree entirely with you. Spent 5 winters in Abaco and only had to deploy a secondary one time (Green Turtle Cay...bad bottom in a blow.).
The key is the right primary tackle for any wind,wave and bottom conditions you are likely to face. Deploying two anchors has MANY disadvantages and should rarely need to be done in the Abacos with the possible exception of the extreme northern Abacos where you have reversing currents off the banks.
Furthermore...the bad weather anchorages in the Abacos are usually quite crowded in a blow and no one uses two anchors in the middle of a pack if you don't want a lot of yelling at you! This then limits you to two anchors at the edges only and leaves you more exposed to wind and seas!
So...I respectfully disagree as well.
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Old 07-12-2008, 11:10   #12
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... Do be sure to ALWAYS use a snubber line when anchoring on chain, and be sure that it is long enough to provide considerable stretch...
The importance of STRETCH in a snubber cannot be overstated. Stretch comes from line properties, diameter, and length. Smaller diameters, in longer lengths are preferred for snubbers.
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Old 07-12-2008, 11:44   #13
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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
I cannot believe I am going to disagree with a Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor, but I guess in these forums more opinions are usually helpful. So If I can respectfully disagree with the routine use of 2 anchors to increse holding under any sort of normal circumstances. (I have no problem with multiple anchors to limit swing, or multiple anchors set in different direction when say a change of tide is expected. Or if hurricane type winds are predicted). I feel carring a large enough single anchor is a much better solution.
I have long supported the view that the real authorities are those who know rather than those who have titles.

I based my comment on my own experiences in 1992 in the Sea Abaco. Sunsail requested that we lay two anchors each night. The boat we chartered had a CQR as a primary and a Danforth as a secondary. We managed to stay hooked during one big blow.

I really appreciate your other comments. The only time that I have dragged was the bay between Espiritu Santa and La Partida in the Sea of Cortez. The winds were about 45 knots in the anchorage. We were on two anchors (CQR and Bruce). The bottom was soft sand. As I watched the pressure being transfered from one rode to the other, I was beginning to question the 2 anchor theory. I seemed to me that we are alternately "jerking" each anchor. I have been meaning to ask a engineer or a phycist about the vectors of forces being put on each anchor.

Eventually, I re-anchored on two anchors in shallower water so that I could increase my scope. After that we held.

On the West Coast we only use one anchor, because we usually get a wind shift while anchored. There is a real danger of fouled anchor rodes.

Thanks

Jack
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Old 07-12-2008, 11:48   #14
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Noelex...I agree entirely with you. Spent 5 winters in Abaco and only had to deploy a secondary one time (Green Turtle Cay...bad bottom in a blow.).
The key is the right primary tackle for any wind,wave and bottom conditions you are likely to face. Deploying two anchors has MANY disadvantages and should rarely need to be done in the Abacos with the possible exception of the extreme northern Abacos where you have reversing currents off the banks.
Furthermore...the bad weather anchorages in the Abacos are usually quite crowded in a blow and no one uses two anchors in the middle of a pack if you don't want a lot of yelling at you! This then limits you to two anchors at the edges only and leaves you more exposed to wind and seas!
So...I respectfully disagree as well.
Cam

Thanks for the comments. Your experience out ways mine. In 1992, the anchorages were not that busy

Jack
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Old 07-12-2008, 11:57   #15
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...So If I can respectfully disagree with the routine use of 2 anchors to increse holding under any sort of normal circumstances. (I have no problem with multiple anchors to limit swing, or multiple anchors set in different direction when say a change of tide is expected. Or if hurricane type winds are predicted). I feel carrying a large enough single anchor is a much better solution....
My cruising experience is divided between non-tidal anchorages, where we usually used a single large anchor ( or 2 “Vee’d” off the bow); and (mostly reversing) tidal anchorages where we mostly used two (Bahamian moored) large anchors.

I don’t believe that a cruiser can afford to carry a “lunch hook” (on most boats); and, hence, ALL anchors must be “PRIMARY” sized.

We carried not less than 3 (often 4) over-sized (according to manufacturers) anchors with rodes on our little C&C 29 - a considerable, but worthwhile, investment in weight/space.
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