Am I changing the oil too often?

[evm1024]

I know someone (no really, know them well) who bought a Ford Ranger new and almost never changed their oil. They added oil as needed thinking that this fresh oil would do the trick.

Somewhere over 100k miles they started noticing that the oil pressure gauge was "fluttering" and reading low. It got so bad that they had the low pressure light fully on.

The shop that worked on the engine said that the oil pan was all gunked up with heavy tar and that the oil pump was very worn and between the clogging from the gunk and the worn oil pump they had no oil pressure.

The shop cleaned out the sump and replaced the oil pump. They also suggested that my friend use one of the oil cleaners (marvels mystery oil, seafoam etc), run the engine for a day or few and then change the oil. They wanted him to do this 2 or 3 times then change the oil at the interval recommended by Ford.

He did this and sold the truck with over 250k miles on it and no further oil problems.

I am not sure how often he changed the oil filter. But it appears that changing the oil would flush out much of the "gunk" that gets formed at least in a 1980's Ford Ranger.

It appears that changing the oil:

1) flushes out the gunk

2) flushes out suspended particles and other contaminants

3) restores fresh oil with any additives at "full" strength.

[capt jgw]

All this assumes the engine is in frequent, year round use. Here in Michigan we can't do that, boats have to be laid up for as much as half the year. Here you should change the oil every fall just before layup regardless of hours. The accumulated acids and moisture will corrode interior parts and the carbon will settle out as sludge.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by capt jgw

All this assumes the engine is in frequent, year round use. Here in Michigan we can't do that, boats have to be laid up for as much as half the year. Here you should change the oil every fall just before layup regardless of hours. The accumulated acids and moisture will corrode interior parts and the carbon will settle out as sludge.

Yes, people who use a boat like this, accumulated hours are likely to not be an issue, and your right you should lay up with fresh oil, not leave the old oil in until next year.
Some will say you need to change oil again after lay-up, but I don’t think it’s necessary myself.

No, when I’m saying change oil frequently for long engine life, it’s for people who put a lot of hours on their motors, and stretching the life of an engine matters to them. Cause they may well go through at least one engine in their Cruising life.

I’ve put many, many hours on engines and have only worn one engine out in my entire life. It was a Poulan 360 chain saw that I used to cut and sell wood as a kid, the plating on the cylinder wore off and I had to replace the piston and cylinder.
I sold the 1970’s International 574 tractor to go cruising, we bought it new and it had about 15,000 hours on it when I sold it.
I put about 250,000 miles on an old Mercedes 220 Diesel and it was still fine when I wrecked it, and had about that on our VW Golf Diesel when I sold it to go to Germany. I wasn’t running the Autobahn in a VW Diesel
The Prius my daughter drives now in College has. I believe over 250,000 miles on it.
My Father in law just got rid of their Honda Accord that has 400,000 on it because his Wife had to have an SUV.

None of those motors burned oil, and all the oil change interval was less than factory recommended.
Prius was initially 5,000 miles, then after so many complained that an environmentally conscious car should have a longer oil change interval, Toyota changed the printing in the manual and the software to trip the change oil light at 10,000 miles now.
It helped sell cars, think it’s going to help them last longer?

[model 10]

I'm not in the, "change it often camp". For one thing, I don't know where old oil goes around here. Dumping almost 2 gallons of oil into some gully in Guatemala, or where ever, is repugnant. Sneaking a filter into the trash is bad enough. From what I understand, oil is worn out when it's, long chain molecules (), are cut into to many short pieces. They say that takes a while, way more than say, 50 hrs. Diesel junk is the problem and I'm not how sure how abrasive that is.

Did you know that they used to add Sperm Whale oil to some oils to prevent corrosion on internal surfaces?

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by Ecos

I'm not in the, "change it often camp". For one thing, I don't know where old oil goes around here. Dumping almost 2 gallons of oil into some gully in Guatemala, or where ever, is repugnant. Sneaking a filter into the trash is bad enough. From what I understand, oil is worn out when it's, long chain molecules (), are cut into to many short pieces. They say that takes a while, way more than say, 50 hrs. Diesel junk is the problem and I'm not how sure how abrasive that is.

Did you know that they used to add Sperm Whale oil to some oils to prevent corrosion on internal surfaces?

Where do they get sperm whale oil from these days?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Ecos

. . . Diesel junk is the problem and I'm not how sure how abrasive that is. . .

There's no excuse, for not knowing! See posts 42 and 57, with abundant links to scientific papers. Anyone who read this thread know exactly how abrasive "diesel junk" is, and the short answer is, "very!"

Originally Posted by fivecapes

A more recent study https://link.springer.com/article/10...249-016-0704-9 on the effects of soot on the boundary layer.

This study suggests that there is soot as hard as metal engine parts and hard enough to abrade the engine.. . .

Originally Posted by Dockhead

No need to guess about this; there is abundant information available concerning the abrasiveness of diesel soot and the effect of soot in the engine oil on diesel engine wear. Here in one paper, more than you ever wanted to know, from the SAE in fact:

http://w124performance.com/docs/gene...ts_Of_Soot.pdf

"Abstract: During the diesel engine combustion process, soot particles are produced and are either exhausted into the atmosphere or absorbed by the engine’s lubricant. Soot-contaminated lubricant has been shown to produce significant amounts of engine wear. The main mechanism of soot-related wear is through abrasion, but, at increased levels of soot content in the lubricant, starvation of the contact can occur, which can increase wear further. High concentrations of soot can increase the local acidic level and, around the piston where high temperatures and volatile gases coexist, corrosion may also occur. In this paper, the current understanding of engine wear due to soot contamination and the previous research performed is reviewed. The paper also discusses soot formation and its general effects within the engine(including friction and efficiency), as well as other issues including filtration or removal, effects on the lubricant, engine design and operation, and future industry targets and technologies related to soot contamination."
. . .

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

Where do they get sperm whale oil from these days?

That's easy - whale sperm!

[Compass790]

I wuda thort frm Japanese " scientific " whaling studies. Not that i think a whale is much different from a cow. ( not taking about the oil here ) Assuming it's from a SUSTAINABLE HARVEST. That's assuming a lot I know. Given the increasing planet population is harvesting a cow sustainable?
Must admit I love a good steak tho. :-)

[Wotname]

It seems sperm whale oil ins't an oil after all; it's a liquid wax. At least according to this link - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm_oil

It does have some interesting properties.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I wasn’t running the Autobahn in a VW Diesel

We lived in Germany during the early '80s, and used the Autobahns routinely. At the time I had a Suzuki SJ410 "jeep" and the 10 in that model meant a 1.0L engine... worked fine... in the slow lane.

More recently I did a lot of TDY's from here to there, and the rental cars were routinely E-class Mercedes 2.0L diesels. I never could find out how fast they'd go; Autobahn traffic has become so congested somebody would always be moving into the lane ahead of me and slowing me down. I think the fastest I saw was something like 110-ish... with pedal to spare.

-Chris

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Wotname

It seems sperm whale oil ins't an oil after all; it's a liquid wax. At least according to this link - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm_oil

It does have some interesting properties.

The motorcycle chain lube I used to use contained “synthetic sperm whale oil”

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

No need to guess about this; there is abundant information available concerning the abrasiveness of diesel soot and the effect of soot in the engine oil on diesel engine wear. Here in one paper, more than you ever wanted to know, from the SAE in fact:


http://w124performance.com/docs/gene...ts_Of_Soot.pdf



"Abstract: During the diesel engine combustion process, soot particles are produced and are either exhausted into the atmosphere or absorbed by the engine’s lubricant. Soot-contaminated lubricant has been shown to produce significant amounts of engine wear. The main mechanism of soot-related wear is through abrasion, but, at increased levels of soot content in the lubricant, starvation of the contact can occur, which can increase wear further. High concentrations of soot can increase the local acidic level and, around the piston where high temperatures and volatile gases coexist, corrosion may also occur. In this paper, the current understanding of engine wear due to soot contamination and the previous research performed is reviewed. The paper also discusses soot formation and its general effects within the engine(including friction and efficiency), as well as other issues including filtration or removal, effects on the lubricant, engine design and operation, and future industry targets and technologies related to soot contamination."



So do we not care about that, because we are unlikely to wear out our engines anyway? Because we don't use them enough hours a year to wear them out before they rust apart?


Everyone will have to answer that for himself. For my part, however -- I had over 20,000 hours on the engine in our last boat, and am closing in on 4,000 hours on this one. I've seen badly maintained marine engines start to burn oil and have starting problems from low compression at less than 3,000 hours. I don't know about you, but I have always been careful with oil changes, and don't plan to change.

Doesn't answer the question. Not questioning if it can cause more wear...it's how much extra wear relative to the life of an engine.

20,000hr is likely several standard deviations above typical users over 20-30yrs of ownership. So yeah, odds are for the vast majority, the engine will rust away long before it wears out.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Wotname

It seems sperm whale oil ins't an oil after all; it's a liquid wax. At least according to this link - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm_oil

It does have some interesting properties.

Generally speaking, waxes are solidified oils. They are mostly playing semantics.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Yes, people who use a boat like this, accumulated hours are likely to not be an issue, and your right you should lay up with fresh oil, not leave the old oil in until next year.
Some will say you need to change oil again after lay-up, but I don’t think it’s necessary myself.

No, when I’m saying change oil frequently for long engine life, it’s for people who put a lot of hours on their motors, and stretching the life of an engine matters to them. Cause they may well go through at least one engine in their Cruising life.

I’ve put many, many hours on engines and have only worn one engine out in my entire life. It was a Poulan 360 chain saw that I used to cut and sell wood as a kid, the plating on the cylinder wore off and I had to replace the piston and cylinder.
I sold the 1970’s International 574 tractor to go cruising, we bought it new and it had about 15,000 hours on it when I sold it.
I put about 250,000 miles on an old Mercedes 220 Diesel and it was still fine when I wrecked it, and had about that on our VW Golf Diesel when I sold it to go to Germany. I wasn’t running the Autobahn in a VW Diesel
The Prius my daughter drives now in College has. I believe over 250,000 miles on it.
My Father in law just got rid of their Honda Accord that has 400,000 on it because his Wife had to have an SUV.

None of those motors burned oil, and all the oil change interval was less than factory recommended.
Prius was initially 5,000 miles, then after so many complained that an environmentally conscious car should have a longer oil change interval, Toyota changed the printing in the manual and the software to trip the change oil light at 10,000 miles now.
It helped sell cars, think it’s going to help them last longer?

I've had similar experience, never wearing out an engine just following or slightly exceeding the manufacturer's recommended intervals.

Both are anecdotal not statistical evidence.

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by Wotname

That's easy - whale sperm!

Alright smarty I know what the mechanism is for semen collection in fertility clinics but how do they do it with a whale?