Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 18-05-2012, 12:12   #31
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,342
Re: Alcohol

Thanks, you know more than I do about it. I have done 3 boats with rolled on resin and no sanding with no ill effects. I never used any fillers in the resin though. You must want those bottom finishes like the topsides for your customers!
__________________

__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2012, 12:30   #32
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,199
Images: 52
Re: Alcohol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Thanks, you know more than I do about it. I have done 3 boats with rolled on resin and no sanding with no ill effects. I never used any fillers in the resin though. You must want those bottom finishes like the topsides for your customers!


Yup!

But in all seriousness that's a VC-17 race bottom and most of our bottom jobs dont come out looking like that. If you roll on all the coats of 2000 with a candy striper it makes a nice perfect even light stipple. When you stack up all the coats on top of each other the finished effect is is a very fine stipple pattern. By the time you roll on two coats of bottom paint all you can see is the roller stipple from the bottom paint. To get finishes like the one pictured I spray the bottom paint (you have to use an airless rig and serious safety gear) and then wet sand to 1500-2000.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	000_0359.jpg
Views:	70
Size:	366.4 KB
ID:	41190  
__________________

__________________
minaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2012, 17:29   #33
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Stuart Fl
Boat: Cabo Rico 38
Posts: 692
Re: Alcohol

Thank you so much,I,am sure others will apprecdiate it also,I,am now at a standstil,Had afellow come in to blast the bottom as I,walked by his truck after he had tented the boat,I,saw SAND,I,won't bore anyone .Stopped him ,Now what to do,I sanded one side with a DA 80 grit where the paint was flaking getting to gel was easy the rest not so easy,I,do not want to go to bare glass as the gel is still fair and no blisters after 30 years,I,may da the entire bottom with 60 to remove the paint.I'll check back in ayear probably take that long.
Thanks
__________________
casual is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2012, 19:21   #34
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,199
Images: 52
Re: Alcohol

Quote:
Originally Posted by casual View Post
Thank you so much,I,am sure others will apprecdiate it also,I,am now at a standstil,Had afellow come in to blast the bottom as I,walked by his truck after he had tented the boat,I,saw SAND,I,won't bore anyone .Stopped him ,Now what to do,I sanded one side with a DA 80 grit where the paint was flaking getting to gel was easy the rest not so easy,I,do not want to go to bare glass as the gel is still fair and no blisters after 30 years,I,may da the entire bottom with 60 to remove the paint.I'll check back in ayear probably take that long.
Thanks

Casual, it takes me a day or two to soft pad sand a bottom your size with 36 grit. Try some searches here and elsewhere. Don't sand through the gel if you dont have a good reason. A DA with 80 grit probably would take a year. Look here to start-


Bottom Paint Question
__________________
minaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-05-2012, 10:15   #35
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,342
Re: Alcohol

Quote:
Originally Posted by casual View Post
Thank you so much,I,am sure others will apprecdiate it also,I,am now at a standstil,Had afellow come in to blast the bottom as I,walked by his truck after he had tented the boat,I,saw SAND,I,won't bore anyone .Stopped him ,Now what to do,I sanded one side with a DA 80 grit where the paint was flaking getting to gel was easy the rest not so easy,I,do not want to go to bare glass as the gel is still fair and no blisters after 30 years,I,may da the entire bottom with 60 to remove the paint.I'll check back in ayear probably take that long.
Thanks
Whats wrong with sand? It's abrasive right? What kind of "sand " is on your sandpaper? Does it really matter...? I WOULD worry about his pressures and technique. But not much about his media....
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-05-2012, 15:02   #36
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Stuart Fl
Boat: Cabo Rico 38
Posts: 692
Re: Alcohol

One sand I,have read is Banned,Two having had sand used on a prior boat 25 years ago,I,would NEVER let it be used again it wrecked the bottom Gel IMO it also tears into the Glass,I,don't want to damage a bottom that has no problems.I,would love to see a Soda blasted bottom if non destructive I,would have it done however from reading I,gather it also can be destructive.So.I'll sand.
__________________
casual is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-05-2012, 15:07   #37
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,199
Images: 52
Re: Alcohol

Quote:
Originally Posted by casual View Post
One sand I,have read is Banned,Two having had sand used on a prior boat 25 years ago,I,would NEVER let it be used again it wrecked the bottom Gel IMO it also tears into the Glass,I,don't want to damage a bottom that has no problems.I,would love to see a Soda blasted bottom if non destructive I,would have it done however from reading I,gather it also can be destructive.So.I'll sand.

Smart. Sand is way too aggressive for a fiberglass bottom, even in the hands of an experienced operator. Soda blasting is the way to go, if you must blast. However, I feel that blasting is for the lazy, I can grind a bottom paint removal much faster and with much less environmental hassle, it's just much harder work. But it saves our clients a ton of money.
__________________
minaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-05-2012, 15:13   #38
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Stuart Fl
Boat: Cabo Rico 38
Posts: 692
Re: Alcohol

minaret,I,have witnessed first hand at the yard I,am at a bottom being ground,and I,mean ground,Never would I,let it hapen.I,personally do not have the experience to do it.I,can very carefully take a week to DA down to solid bottom paint.IMO a DA will not dig into the gel or glass,especially using 80 grit.
__________________
casual is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-05-2012, 15:28   #39
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,199
Images: 52
Re: Alcohol

Quote:
Originally Posted by casual View Post
minaret,I,have witnessed first hand at the yard I,am at a bottom being ground,and I,mean ground,Never would I,let it hapen.I,personally do not have the experience to do it.I,can very carefully take a week to DA down to solid bottom paint.IMO a DA will not dig into the gel or glass,especially using 80 grit.

I've seen many DIYers go that route, often with a rented vac sander at the yards suggestion. I have always thought they do this so that all who see the misery the poor victim endures and how long it takes will be happy to pay them to do it. Some yards even require a vacuum sander, even though they don't use one themselves, because it guarantees business. Get a 7" softpad and go for it, just start on the flattest areas and stay well away from the waterline, keel blocks, and jack stands. It's not that tricky except at the turn of the bilge, where you need to take the softpad on edge and twist to get the right profile. But you can always do that area with your DA. Anything finer than 40 grit on a bottom is a waste of time IMHO. I have taught many totally inexperienced kids to do this, anyone with a modicum of intelligence can do it. And in the long run it's much easier than the DA. I'd much rather overhead sand with a 20# soft pad setup all day than do the same with a DA for a week or two. That is misery.
__________________
minaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-05-2012, 17:15   #40
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,342
Re: Alcohol

Yea I understand sand will dig in, as well as silicon carbide, aluminum oxide etc. especially in the wrong hands! I guess maybe but it's hard to figure how you got as far as him being there and tenting the boat before you asked what his media was....? Did you think soda or dry ice?
It sounds to me like yo need a pro to get under there with a 9" disc and Get er Done. A DA is a joke on that....
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-05-2012, 17:32   #41
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Montegut LA.
Boat: Now we need to get her to Louisiana !! she's ours
Posts: 3,421
Re: Alcohol

We have been useing a Disk sander, and 36 Grit disks, for more years then I like to think about!!don't br afraid! just start out slow and a little careful, and you will pick up the stroke needed to get the bottom done a lot faster and easier. And the finish will be what ya want it to be if ya do the work and take your time !Connie and I have saved so much money over the years by doing our own bottom work, that it's hard to believe(we been doing it for over 20 years) Its not the nicest, cleanest, funest job on a boat but it's not the worst by far LOL
__________________
Bob and Connie
bobconnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-05-2012, 17:49   #42
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,762
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: Alcohol

back in the day when gelcoat was hand painted onto the mold BEFORE the application of the roving , mat and resin layers......was a good thing. then the epa decided they were god and changed the rules to make boats bottoms sukk bad---minaret--you know the science of it all--i know the progression....now gelcoat is sprayed and not thick enough to make much difference. now, one needs a protective layer of resin over the gelcoat to keep out water ingress.....
now i go back to repairs of my mizzen base and step and supports......
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-05-2012, 17:56   #43
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Stuart Fl
Boat: Cabo Rico 38
Posts: 692
Re: Alcohol

Cheechako,good question,He was recommend by the yard,I,spoke with him via ph prior to arrival date,we DISCUSSED MATERIAL AND METHOD,The day of the project I,arrived late as I,Do Volunteer work a couple of days a week,Sand was in a closed van as I,walked by I,saw it thru the door.The rest of the story.DAing is not that bad time consuming yes hard no.Wheeling a grinder is harder maybe too many birthdays.been ther and done that.
__________________
casual is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2012, 08:11   #44
Registered User

Join Date: May 2012
Location: FL
Posts: 28
Images: 1
Re: Alcohol

Be careful regarding antifouling over 2000E "window" Reading from the chart on the can - @60 to 80 degrees F - Hours between coats of 2000E and antifouling paint - Minimum 5 hours, Maximum 7 hours. Lots of people mistakenly believe the window is longer because it was longer with the old formulation.
__________________
Fiberglass1Inc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2012, 08:57   #45
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,199
Images: 52
Re: Alcohol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiberglass1Inc View Post
Be careful regarding antifouling over 2000E "window" Reading from the chart on the can - @60 to 80 degrees F - Hours between coats of 2000E and antifouling paint - Minimum 5 hours, Maximum 7 hours. Lots of people mistakenly believe the window is longer because it was longer with the old formulation.


That's true. The new formula has moved the window between coats of 2000 from 2 weeks to six months, but the window for the first coat of bottom paint can be as low as five hours in high temps now. They recommend the "fingerprint test". Also VC Offshore, Baltoplate, VC 17m Extra, and other vinyl antifoulings can no longer be chemical bonded, you must sand first if using these products. We always do a final coat of 2000e in the morning followed by the first coat of bottom paint in the afternoon.
__________________

__________________
minaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 18:02.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.