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Old 16-05-2012, 23:40   #16
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Re: Alcohol

One could fully tent off the lower hull, the ground too (sealed tent), and put in a dehumidifier , since it's nice and warm in FL. And run some fans across the hull to create a vacuum effect.

That's how to dry out houses after a flood.
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Old 17-05-2012, 03:42   #17
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Re: Alcohol

Fiberglass1INC,I,hauled the boat in Sept 1991,Peeled and let dry till April 1992,The dry time of the year in S Fl.All west was applied in April,I,even added a layer of mat.afetr 3 or so coats of epoxy,them more coats.I,spent a lot of time speaking with West System folks and a lot of money buying there product.In retrospect,I,do not beleive it was a waste,as the boat held up well for the next 20 plus years.What I,do beleive is that it was an overkill.I,sincerly beleive that Myself as an amature or even a pro can not control all the variables working in an open boat yard.Dirt dust humitidy all enter into the picture,drying a bottom is a big job,I will no repeat it inthe same manner,just to get the same results as before.I,have less birthday's left.Plus this New to boat has No Blisters evident,just bad paint.I,had a Blasting service in Yesterday to remove the paint,I,stopprd them afetr 1 Sq ft,The blasiing was going into the Gel,Now what chemical or Grinding ?Back at it today.Thanks for the input .
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Old 17-05-2012, 03:54   #18
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Re: Alcohol

Minaret,You are a Pro,I am not,I,would love to avail myself of your services you speak with confidence Wash.is a long way from Fl.I,bought thia boat knowing I,had aproject on my hands,prior to purchase I,had an ultra sound done of the hull,showed 100% solid.As you know moister readings thru bottom aint are deceprive even sanding back a few areas showed less moister but not dry.I,suppose the best thing to do is grind or chemical strip wash wait a week and take moister readings,go from there.Sound ok.Thanks
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Old 17-05-2012, 16:06   #19
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I've heard sandblasting makes the problem worse. Have you tried just scraping the paint off with a paint scraper? I scraped paint off my bottom last spring with really good results and I was surprised at how little effort, much easier than sanding, much cleaner.
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Old 17-05-2012, 16:55   #20
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Re: Alcohol

NO way ,I'll scrape a boat don't have problems just too much bottom paint.
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Old 17-05-2012, 20:11   #21
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Re: Alcohol

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Originally Posted by casual View Post
Minaret,You are a Pro,I am not,I,would love to avail myself of your services you speak with confidence Wash.is a long way from Fl.I,bought thia boat knowing I,had aproject on my hands,prior to purchase I,had an ultra sound done of the hull,showed 100% solid.As you know moister readings thru bottom aint are deceprive even sanding back a few areas showed less moister but not dry.I,suppose the best thing to do is grind or chemical strip wash wait a week and take moister readings,go from there.Sound ok.Thanks

Strange. Ultrasound readings don't work on a fiberglass boat, particularly a cored one, although it is a quite common method for metal boats where it works quite well. Fiberglass and particularly core materials dont transmit sound waves well enough to get an accurate picture. A moisture meter will only work on bare fiberglass because it works by measuring relative conductivity of the substrate and the cuprous oxide in bottom paint will always read wet. The only way to get an accurate reading of any hidden delam or other structural problems in a glass hull is thermal imaging, and almost no one does it, although its becoming more common and more affordable. I would definitely grind, chemical strippers for bottom paint are a joke, and the joke is on you if you try it. Grind off all the bottom paint, get a moisture reading once every square foot over the whole bottom, and get it dry. Then apply 4-6 coats of 2000e and 2 coats of bottom paint and your good to go. It's not that big a job relatively speaking, unless you have severe saturation and need to peel. It sounds like you should continue carefully researching and closely watching your yard, because ultrasounding a glass hull and taking moisture readings on top of bottom paint are inexcusable amateur errors for a pro outfit. Sounds borderline like padding the bill even, anyone should know better than that. I've seen a few dishonest types take a moisture reading on bottom paint and then tell a client, "hey its wet, you need to pay me to fix this", when it was probably fine.
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Old 17-05-2012, 21:34   #22
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Re: Alcohol

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Originally Posted by Fiberglass1Inc View Post
Gel coat is most certainly not any kind of moisture barrier. Porous gel coat combined with CSM (skin coat -first layer inside gel coat) are the reasons boats blister. Neither is most bottom paint any sort of barrier. As contrary as it sounds, the fastest way to dry your hull is to wash it with fresh water every other day for the first week. Think of it this way - when your shirt goes over the side and you try to dry it out, will it dry before you get the salt out of it? Of course not. You have to fresh water rinse it or it will never truly dry. The cotton fibers in your shirt and the glass fibers in your hull are not that different. Also, the glycols (the chemical result of polyester breaking down) will blush to the surface with the salt and the moisture. Nothing will stick to glycol. As it blushes out, fresh water will remove it initially. If it sits on the surface for any length of time it becomes tacky and hard to remove.

I'm no expert on gel coat and fiberglass, but a shirt soaked in salt water will dry at least approximately as fast as a shirt soaked in fresh water. It will FEEL different because the salt and other dissolved minerals will remain in the fabric, but it will most definitely be dry.

Honestly I would urge people to remember the story of the stolen dinghy and double check anything they read on line.
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Old 17-05-2012, 22:55   #23
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Re: Alcohol

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I'm no expert on gel coat and fiberglass, but a shirt soaked in salt water will dry at least approximately as fast as a shirt soaked in fresh water. It will FEEL different because the salt and other dissolved minerals will remain in the fabric, but it will most definitely be dry.

Honestly I would urge people to remember the story of the stolen dinghy and double check anything they read on line.

Almost true but not quite. Salt is hygroscopic, which means it will attract and retain water. Anything saturated in salt will never really dry. But the main reason you need to wash the hull is that the water trapped inside the laminate is now contaminated with styrene monomer and all sorts of other nasty chemicals which are the result of the blistering process. As the hull dries this results in a film of waxy material forming as the water dries from the surface but the chemical residue is left behind. This is what will inhibit drying and this is also the reason that a soapy washdown is recommended instead of just fresh water, it cuts the grease and gets it off. Way back when we were air drying we washed the hulls once a week with soapy water and a scrub brush, followed by a pressure washer to get all of the soap off. None of this is required with the hotvac of course.
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Old 18-05-2012, 09:18   #24
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Re: Alcohol

I think the alcohol is a sham. Evaporates too quickly and only sits on the surface.
The only way I have ever seen anyone dry out their hull was to have it 'peeled' or grouns down to bare glass with no gel-coat left on the surface.
then they let it sit in the yard for many months to dry out. They also give it mant washings. The surface washing does'nt add any 'real' amount of water to the hull. In drying, the purpose is to dry the fiberglas out through its entire thickness.
Definitely need a moisture meter to check on progress.
Usually a cold winter wind will do a phenominal amount of drying.
Anyway, once down to bare fiberglass, keep checking with a moisture meter. Eventually you will reach a point wheer there is no more evaporation and then you can use an epoxy sealer.
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Old 18-05-2012, 09:22   #25
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Re: Alcohol

Minaret... it is guys like you that make this forum so valuable. Where else are novices and grungy old salts like myself going to get unvarnished, accurate information without the BS that usually comes with free advice. While not in the middle of a project myself, just reading your comments, explainations and suggestions make me long for those boring frustrating days of wondering what I was going to screw up today... Thanks for making this forum so valuable for all of us... Capt Phil
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Old 18-05-2012, 09:50   #26
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Re: Alcohol

Of course the longer you wait the drier it will be, but it sounds like it's a pretty dry hull at this point. alcohol an interesting idea. If you now have all your bottom paint removed, put epoxy resin on.... not simply an interlux primer/barrier coat. Insist on this! It would be a shame to miss this step at this point. Boat yards do what they like to do and are familiar with, it doesnt always mean it;s the best thing...
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Old 18-05-2012, 10:19   #27
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Re: Alcohol

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Minaret... it is guys like you that make this forum so valuable. Where else are novices and grungy old salts like myself going to get unvarnished, accurate information without the BS that usually comes with free advice. While not in the middle of a project myself, just reading your comments, explainations and suggestions make me long for those boring frustrating days of wondering what I was going to screw up today... Thanks for making this forum so valuable for all of us... Capt Phil


Thanks for the compliment, and always happy to help my fellow boaters however possible. I have certainly learned a lot from you guys as well. A free exchange of information is priceless!
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Old 18-05-2012, 10:22   #28
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Re: Alcohol

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Of course the longer you wait the drier it will be, but it sounds like it's a pretty dry hull at this point. alcohol an interesting idea. If you now have all your bottom paint removed, put epoxy resin on.... not simply an interlux primer/barrier coat. Insist on this! It would be a shame to miss this step at this point. Boat yards do what they like to do and are familiar with, it doesnt always mean it;s the best thing...

I would only epoxy the bottom if you have removed the gelcoat, which generally means only if the boat has been peeled. In this case the op said he is only removing the bottom paint.
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Old 18-05-2012, 10:27   #29
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Re: Alcohol

Why would the Interlux over dry gel be any better than Epoxy over the same?
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Old 18-05-2012, 12:07   #30
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Re: Alcohol

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Why would the Interlux over dry gel be any better than Epoxy over the same?

Because aside from the fact that it is a better barrier coat than WEST with additives, it is impossible to apply several coats of WEST nicely enough to coat over it without first sanding the whole bottom, a time consuming and costly step. In fact sanding straight resin is such a PITA that when we do an epoxy bottom we always apply 2 coats of resin followed by a thin slick over the whole bottom of WEST with 407, which makes the sanding go much faster as the straight resin will often gum your paper a little and is hard as nails, and if you used an additive it is often MUCH worse, ie the carbon and copper additives make it almost impossible to sand. If you have a clean dry sanded gelcoat bottom you can apply 4-6 coats of 2000e and then chemical bond the bottom paint to it with no sanding and not only does it look great but you also get a superior bond with the bottom paint. Even if you didnt sand your WEST and decided to be happy with all the drips and runs and stipple that you inevetably end up with, the chemical bonding window is short and amine blush can ruin your bond. The chemical bonding window for 2000e both between coats of itself and bottom paint is 2 weeks. You can also apply 2 coats a day of 2000 without worrying about amine blush or losing a bond at any stage. If you have a decent gelcoat bottom and no osmosis problem, just lean towards the heavy side of the 4-6 coat recommendation for 2000 to get the necessary millage. Applying epoxy resin and then having to sand it out would be a waste of time and money in this situation IMHO. We do resin coat every boat we peel, because usually the outer layers of chop mat are so porous that any other product would pinhole, but WEST really worked into the laminate with a nap roller provides a stellar bond and when covered with a thin layer of fairing compound sands out relatively quickly. After acheiving a fair bottom by sanding out the WEST with 407, we always coat it with 2000. Relying on just WEST will cause long-term failure and reblistering in my experience. We have never had to do a warranty job on a boat we peeled, dried with the hotvac, resin coated in the aforementioned way, and then coated with 2000. We have permanently cured some very wet and blistered hulls this way.
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