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Old 16-03-2017, 07:10   #1
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Again About the Merits of COPPER-COAT

No relevant posts about it for years.....

I mean Copper-coat, NOT copper-something

Does it make sense, if the costs are offset by less antifoul cycles over the years.??

My boat is GRP and l dont want the additional epoxy layer l hear about somewhere as a needed (?) basis for the 5 (?)layers of copper-coat.

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Old 16-03-2017, 08:22   #2
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Re: Again About the Merits of COPPER-COAT

I have an aluminum boat which means I cannot use copper bottom. I have looked into and used all of the non-copper alternatives. They are all garbage except for TBT (which I used before it was banned), which is illegal in most places.

If anyone ever invents an alternative that works as good as copper, is not illegal, and gets a patent on it then they will have made a fortune.

The dilemma is that whatever kills those things that attach to your hull, also kills whatever is in the water column.

There have been a lot of questionable ideas out there but none have panned out.
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Old 16-03-2017, 21:42   #3
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Re: Again About the Merits of COPPER-COAT

To me, it seems like if you stick to the manufacturer's directions: 3-4 coats, constantly mix copper in solution whilst applying, allow 2 weeks until immersion, and burnish before splashing - that it works. I am going to give it a go, although it will be another year to 18 months before I splash. My paint is already sanded away, so prep sin't such a task for me. The cost will be an additional $1k over traditional paint, but I think the risk for giving it a go is worth it, if it does indeed work. I will re-coup my money through missing one extra haul out + new paint here in the Bay Area.

Also, I just got back from working on my boat and was next to an owner that had applied their own epoxy/copper powder mix. This isn't the best idea, as the epoxy solution doesn't leech out the copper like Coppercoat should. That said, the areas where the copper was burnished and exposed had zero hard growth and was the greenish color you'd hope/expect to see. Furthermore, owner said he could hand scrub the algae off and it was easy to sponge off. Lastly, he was cruising in BC for over a year, and then came down the coast to put up on the hard in Guaymas. So just over two years and things were looking good. I feel like it's worth a shot.

Worst case scenario is you spent a few extra bucks and now have extra barrier coat protection.
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Old 16-03-2017, 22:08   #4
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Re: Again About the Merits of COPPER-COAT

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Originally Posted by SF Bay Dude View Post
To me, it seems like if you stick to the manufacturer's directions: 3-4 coats, constantly mix copper in solution whilst applying, allow 2 weeks until immersion, and burnish before splashing - that it works. I am going to give it a go, although it will be another year to 18 months before I splash. My paint is already sanded away, so prep sin't such a task for me. The cost will be an additional $1k over traditional paint, but I think the risk for giving it a go is worth it, if it does indeed work. I will re-coup my money through missing one extra haul out + new paint here in the Bay Area.

Also, I just got back from working on my boat and was next to an owner that had applied their own epoxy/copper powder mix. This isn't the best idea, as the epoxy solution doesn't leech out the copper like Coppercoat should. That said, the areas where the copper was burnished and exposed had zero hard growth and was the greenish color you'd hope/expect to see. Furthermore, owner said he could hand scrub the algae off and it was easy to sponge off. Lastly, he was cruising in BC for over a year, and then came down the coast to put up on the hard in Guaymas. So just over two years and things were looking good. I feel like it's worth

Worst case scenario is you spent a few extra bucks and now have extra barrier coat protection.
Nah, the prep to the bottom to put on coppercoat is far more than putting another few coats of antifoul. You might justify it over the '10 years', but it is a big job to bring the bottom all the way down.
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Old 16-03-2017, 22:20   #5
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Re: Again About the Merits of COPPER-COAT

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Nah, the prep to the bottom to put on coppercoat is far more than putting another few coats of antifoul. You might justify it over the '10 years', but it is a big job to bring the bottom all the way down.
Yep. That's why I stated that my boat's bottom was all the way down. If it actually works, it will be worth it.
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Old 16-03-2017, 23:03   #6
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Re: Again About the Merits of COPPER-COAT

I have a wood boat with a bottom covered with copper plates. An area left bare copper still allows some marine growth. Mostly algae or marine grass. So far no barnacles.
When I was a young shipwright, we worked on some wood ships and barges with copper plating. Barges that sat for long periods had awesome growth, ships were cleaner, but usually had some type of paint over the copper.
Best bet is add your own additives to an existing bottom paint.
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Old 16-03-2017, 23:51   #7
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Re: Again About the Merits of COPPER-COAT

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Originally Posted by TheThunderbird View Post
No relevant posts about it for years.....

I mean Copper-coat, NOT copper-something

Does it make sense, if the costs are offset by less antifoul cycles over the years.??

My boat is GRP and l dont want the additional epoxy layer l hear about somewhere as a needed (?) basis for the 5 (?)layers of copper-coat.

Records
My Copper-coat must about 10 years old by now and although I haven't slipped the boat for 2 years, I'm thinking it must be getting close to it's end of life as it was looking pretty thin last time it was out. It had 3 coats originally. I have burnished it twice.

I can't offer any advice re the GRP as I applied it over an epoxy bottom and used an epoxy barrier coat.
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Old 17-03-2017, 09:08   #8
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Re: Again About the Merits of COPPER-COAT

Just spent 6 months cruising with some friends who had done the Copper Coat thing -- He was terribly unhappy with it. Still had to clean the algae and grass on a more than regular basis.
Thinks, and I agree that if you gotta clean the bottom every couple weeks, you might as well use basic bottom ablative.
I have 2 years on water based ablative and had to clean mine probably a little less than he did his. All in the tropics
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Old 17-03-2017, 10:42   #9
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Re: Again About the Merits of COPPER-COAT

SF, I had my bottom soda blasted because of paint build up and now giving it an 80 grit sand as recommended by Coppercoat. I know of (2) other people into 3 and 5 years and they remarked that it was well worth the effort. Soon you may not be able buy bottom paint with copper. I'm giving it a go. I hate dealing with ablative paint build up. I'll let you know in a couple of years. I also have a hooka and dive my boat regardless.
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Old 17-03-2017, 11:43   #10
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Re: Again About the Merits of COPPER-COAT

Quote:
Originally Posted by SF Bay Dude View Post
To me, it seems like if you stick to the manufacturer's directions: 3-4 coats, constantly mix copper in solution whilst applying, allow 2 weeks until immersion, and burnish before splashing - that it works. I am going to give it a go, although it will be another year to 18 months before I splash. My paint is already sanded away, so prep sin't such a task for me. The cost will be an additional $1k over traditional paint, but I think the risk for giving it a go is worth it, if it does indeed work. I will re-coup my money through missing one extra haul out + new paint here in the Bay Area.

Also, I just got back from working on my boat and was next to an owner that had applied their own epoxy/copper powder mix. This isn't the best idea, as the epoxy solution doesn't leech out the copper like Coppercoat should. That said, the areas where the copper was burnished and exposed had zero hard growth and was the greenish color you'd hope/expect to see. Furthermore, owner said he could hand scrub the algae off and it was easy to sponge off. Lastly, he was cruising in BC for over a year, and then came down the coast to put up on the hard in Guaymas. So just over two years and things were looking good. I feel like it's worth a shot.

Worst case scenario is you spent a few extra bucks and now have extra barrier coat protection.
IMO.... tin hat on.
If it lets water in to react with the copper then it is not going to be a good barrier coat.
You need 100% solids epoxy with no diluents, modifiers or water tolerant hardeners to mininise the permeability of the epoxy.ie good barrier coat. Besides, when you recoat I think water based is going to have to come off- non WB just abraid.

I have used non-water based epoxy plus Cu and it is working to my expectations. You still have to clean the hull every 3 months which I am happy to do; having a low enviromental impact AF on my boat sits better with me. (1.5yrs now)

As I see it Cu coat has a lower enviro impact than most other Cu based preparations, therefore be prepared to clean a little more. Read less CuO/Cu salts leeching into the ocean.
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Old 17-03-2017, 12:35   #11
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Re: Again About the Merits of COPPER-COAT

Used copper coat on a 7m ocean rowboat crossing the Atlantic (7weeks) and it was amazing. Other boats have had to stop and scrub bottoms. Not good when you see oceanic white tips most days. We had one tiny patch missed where the roller was in the trailer and grew a lovely goose barnacle. We left him there and kept and eye on him he was about an 40mm by the time we reached Barbados. Looking at buying a 40ft cruiser and If there's enough money left in the budget its copper coat for me with out a doubt.
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Old 17-03-2017, 12:46   #12
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Re: Again About the Merits of COPPER-COAT

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Originally Posted by captain mitch View Post
Thinks, and I agree that if you gotta clean the bottom every couple weeks, you might as well use basic bottom ablative.

Copper Coat doesn't claim to be more effective than the regular stuff, just longer lasting. (Or, in different words, as effective years 1 through 3, and more effective till year 10.) Yes, you need to clean it from time to time, but you only need to paint once every ten years. That is the benefit.

How much does it save in haul outs, paint and the related effort/hassle? That's the question. If you can reprint cheaply and already pull the boat every year or every other year, copper coat won't have a big benefit.

Also, I believe the stuff is very particular to being applied correctly, which doesn't seem to be a trivial task like regular paint. There is a lot of prep and the mixture/temperature/time have to be just right.

I considered it, but went with regular ablative. Neither soda blasting or weeks scraping, sanding and chemical strippers were in the cards this year and I gotta go! If I ever find a cheap soda blast, perhaps I'll consider it.
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Old 17-03-2017, 14:56   #13
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Re: Again About the Merits of COPPER-COAT

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Originally Posted by lateral View Post
.....
As I see it Cu coat has a lower enviro impact than most other Cu based preparations, therefore be prepared to clean a little more. Read less CuO/Cu salts leeching into the ocean.
Hmm... not sure if this is true. AFAIK, Cu is not particularly toxic - think Cu tubing for plumbing etc. The only reason Cu provides an antifouling role is that the Cu rapidly reacts with sea water to form CuO and/or Cu2O which then slowly coverts to other more toxic Cu salts.

Thus all Cu ends up as the same stuff when immersed in sea water.

If there are some chemists on board, maybe they can confirm this or advise why it may be wrong!
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Old 17-03-2017, 17:11   #14
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Re: Again About the Merits of COPPER-COAT

Iím applying the barrier coat this Sunday, when the weather is predicted to be good here on the Olympic Peninsula, and then Coppercoat Monday (or perhaps Sunday, if things go quickly).

Iím doing this alone, if anyone wants to come helpÖin Port Townsendís Boat Haven.
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Old 17-03-2017, 17:11   #15
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Re: Again About the Merits of COPPER-COAT

I'm thankful for the brilliant contributions
Yes, that's the time l have to scrub hull and bring her all the way down ! To gelcoat
Thus, this is an opportunity for a serious restart.

True, l realize the need to find out professional experts on that specific product.

Given that, in the near future, l would haul out the boat (1200$) Only for repaint, it can make sense.

But, the right partner is needed locally. I will inquire on Copper-coat directly.

Best :-)
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