Adhesive Films for Anti-fouling?

[SoundOfSilence]

Latest update folks. Yesterday I got a reply from Micanti/Robert de Ruiter. He was actually out sailing.

We are now discussing the possibilities and price to apply it on a sailboat. I will keep you updated.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by four winds

Actually if you read the home page, It states exactly what it is and how it works in very simple language.

Micanti

And provides "read more" links to, I assume, more detailed information. Going back to read more now.

No the website hasn't been updated and I looked in the "read more" links when I first saw this thread as it sounded interesting.

If you read with a critical eye, they dance around and never actual state clearly what the product does. Yeah, you can read between the lines but if it really is the best thing since sliced bread, it doesn't make sense that they aren't coming right out and stating in clear simple language what they are proposing.

[Cottontop]

Originally Posted by SoundOfSilence

Latest update folks. Yesterday I got a reply from Micanti/Robert de Ruiter. He was actually out sailing.

We are now discussing the possibilities and price to apply it on a sailboat. I will keep you updated.

Thanks for posting this. I hope you will post anything further you receive.

[Sprucey]

For what it's worth, in my line if work (water and waste water treatment) university if delft, where this originates, has a excellent reputation for innovation in my field. I pay attention to most things that comes out of there.

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[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by SoundOfSilence

We are now discussing the possibilities and price to apply it on a sailboat. I will keep you updated.

Here's my advice- never be the guinea pig.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

Here's my advice- never be the guinea pig.

There's a very good reason for calling the forefront of technology "the bleeding edge"

[Cottontop]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

Here's my advice- never be the guinea pig.

Now, fstbttms, you might be a tad conflicted.

Thank goodness there are those willing to be guinea pigs.

And at the 40€/m2 price noted in the article, it's not crazy expensive. You're not married to it; if it doesn't work, take it off.

If it does work, fstbttms might want to point his kids at a different career.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by Cottontop

Now, fstbttms, you might be a tad conflicted.

I'm not conflicted, just have had enough professional experience with "magic bullets" to know they usually end with an unhappy boatowner.

[SV DestinyAscen]

Renolit Maritime has started offering silicon based adhesive film antifoul.

You can actually request samples.

Samples - RENOLIT CONTACT

RENOLIT MARITIME - Self-adhesive films for maritime applications

[Cottontop]

Originally Posted by SV DestinyAscen

Renolit Maritime has started offering silicon based adhesive film antifoul.

You can actually request samples.

Samples - RENOLIT CONTACT

RENOLIT MARITIME - Self-adhesive films for maritime applications

I couldn't find any explanation of how the film impedes fouling, but I did find Renolit's patent. The claims are in English, but the rest is in German. Here are the claims:

Claims:
1. Use of a film from thermoplastic plastic having an elongation at break in the range from 100 to 200 %, a 2% modulus in the range from 15 to 25 N/15 mm as well as a stretching force in the range from 25 to 40 N/15 mm (all measured according to DIN EN ISO 527-3/2/200), for coating parts that are in contact with sea water to provide protection from fouling characterized in that the film has a groove structure formed by ribs, wherein a rib has a width (b) from 1 to 15 µm and a height (h) from 20 to 40 µm, the distance (a) of adjacent ribs is from 40 to 80 µm, and the opening angle (w) of the rib flanks is from 30 to 45°.

2. The use according to claim 1, characterized in that the thermoplastic plastic is polyvinyl chloride, optionally with the addition of common additives.

3. The use according to claim 1, characterized in that the thermoplastic plastic is polyvinyl chloride or a mixture of polyvinyl chloride and ethylene vinyl acetate, optionally with the addition of common additives.

4. The use according to claim 1, characterized in that the film is a multilayer film, preferably based on polyvinyl chloride or a mixture of polyvinyl chloride and ethylene vinyl acetate having a top layer of polyvinylidene fluoride or acrylate / polyvinylidene fluoride.

5. The use according to any one of claims 1 to 4, characterized in that the width (b) of a rib is from 3 to 8 µm, in particular about 5 µm.

6. The use according to any one of claims 1 to 5, characterized in that the height (h) is about 30 µm.

7. The use according to any one of claims 1 to 6, characterized in that the distance (a) of adjacent ribs, measured from center to center, is from 50 to 70 µm, and more preferably about 60 µm.

8. The use according to any one of claims 1 to 7, characterized in that the opening angle (w) of the rib flanks is 30° or 45°.

9. The use according to any one of claims 1 to 8, characterized in that the thickness is in the range from 100 µm to 300 µm, in particular from 150 µm to 200 µm.

10. The use according to any of claims 1 to 9, for the coating of ships or offshore facilities for oil or gas production or wind energy generation.

11. A method for the protection of parts that are in contact with sea water, characterized in that a film is used according to at least one of claims 1 to 9, which is applied to the part, preferably glued onto it.


Maybe these micro-grooves prevent organisms from attaching?

Here's a link to the patent, if anyone can read the German.

ANTIFOULING FILM - Renolit, SE

[MerlinBrasil]

Originally Posted by SoundOfSilence

Latest update folks. Yesterday I got a reply from Micanti/Robert de Ruiter. He was actually out sailing.

We are now discussing the possibilities and price to apply it on a sailboat. I will keep you updated.

Hi, SOS

Anything to share yet?

Best,
Merlin

[MerlinBrasil]

Hi SOS,

Still waiting for an update on pricing/sailboat?

Best,
Merlin

[SoundOfSilence]

Hi all,

I have had some nice e-mails from Robert in Micanti and that this is not progressing further is entirely my fault! But at least I have some new info to share with you:
1. Price example for an underwater surface of 70sqm will be around 5000 euros. He says this is guaranteed to last for at least 5 years with minimum maintenance. This is the rough estimate for applying it on my boat (sailboat 52 feet), but the underwater hull is not measured so price is not exact. The price includes material, application and shipping of material.
2. He says he is not actively promoting the product in the pleasure craft market because of the low income compared to the work involved. He also says they are focusing on offshore vessels and have won some projects in Asia. The Owners there are more eager to try the product because of the severe growth in warm areas.
3. If we agree on the conditions, he will produce warrantee documents for the job.
4. I have suggested to be his first test boat if he put the product on for free. He has made a counter offer which I have not yet answered to.
5. He says it is quite difficult to remove the product. (Which is the whole point as it then doesn't fall of by itself!) He explains: "Normally the removal is done by 500 bar hot water hydro jetting, in case of a steel hull. For polyester hulls it depends on the owner. Hydro jetting is possible, but some owners don’t dare to use 500 bar. In that case we recommend to scrape of the film manually and afterwards using a paint stripper to remove the residual glue Aquastrip from Veneziani."
6. I have asked him about the propeller and bow thruster, if the product can be applied there as well or if it will fall off easily because of the high RPM.

It is especially the last two points which concerns me! All comments which can make me decide in one direction or the other are welcome

[MerlinBrasil]

Hey, SOS

Thanks for the update. Good stuff.

I'm guessing that the price might drop once they have some volume. Or perhaps another competitor or two may enter the market. 5K seems a bit overpriced for a new product. I see it as a sign of the times, where everybody with a new product 'needs' to become an instant millionaire before proving themselves.

The difficulty removing the product is a bit of a downside, unless one could put another layer of the product after 5 or how many years of the first application. Does their product stick to itself?

I suppose time will tell. Even a superb new product can be blown out of the water by bad management at the company level. That's always a risk. Inventors normally make crappy CEOs.

Given all that, I'm still interested and would appreciate you sharing any more data as you require it.

Best,
Merlin

[Sailmonkey]

Merlinbrasil,

I don't feel that 5000 for a 50'+ boat is all that expensive considering the amount of prep work the bottom needs and the labor to cut and fit the film to the unusual contours. I'm also a little unclear on how your perceived get rich quick pricing translates to bad management.


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