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Old 17-12-2013, 14:39   #16
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Re: AC wall outlets

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Originally Posted by jeepbluetj View Post
Going from 115v to 230v, the wire size will be fine. 15A @ 230v will be twice the power - no need for bigger wires - leave it fused at 15a if the breakers are rated to the voltage.
Exactly my point!

double the voltage, you get double the power with the same current

The breaker protects the wire from current. The breaker is blind to watts.
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Old 17-12-2013, 14:44   #17
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Originally Posted by jeepbluetj View Post
Going from 115v to 230v, the wire size will be fine. 15A @ 230v will be twice the power - no need for bigger wires - leave it fused at 15a if the breakers are rated to the voltage.

(Maybe whoever decided on 115v for north America owned a copper mine)

But of course, use a proper outlet - Schuko, europlug, the massive British thing whatever it's called. Don't use the NEMA 5-15 socket. I guess the NEMA 6 could be used, but that would be bizzare.
That massive British thing ( also used in Ireland) is to BS1363. Note that the reason the plug is fused , as was pointed out , is because of the use of high current ring wiring systems in BS1363. Unlike star systems , which have breakers closer to the load current

Dave
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Old 17-12-2013, 17:22   #18
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Re: AC wall outlets

Hello gentlemen

Great info !!! As the walls are teak and the outlet covers are teak as well.. The 115 outlets look great. All our friends and family are from Auz, Europe, and China. No one uses 115v.

The 14AWG (2.08mm2) wire is more then enough to carry 10 amps at 230v. Electrical code here is to use 1.5mm2 wire for 10 amp circuits.

The biggest power pig we have on the vessel (other then the AC kettle) is the Hoover, and that is 900w, so that would be a max amp draw of 4 amps at 230v. The TV and all entertainment are DC or run off the inverter. The galley has all new 2.5mm2 wire. The kettle for morning tea is the biggest power consumer at 1,100w

Perhaps I could use Australia outlets. They may fit, and not be too confusing. I

Alan
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Old 18-12-2013, 01:59   #19
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Re: AC wall outlets

Hello,

I had a meeting today with the local electrical building inspector. I showed him the 250v 10amp/115v 15amp USA style receptacle. He said they will work with the 14AWG wire on the Bertram.

He contacted a supplier here that has the NEMA 6 (110v 15amp/250v 10amp) that would be better and fit the boxes/covers, so there is no chance anyone would be able to plug in a standard 115v appliance. They are only $2.50 USD. (picture is attached)

This is good news ! Thanks for all the great feedback ! You put me on the right path !

Have a Very Merry Christmas everyone !!!! (as I am outside the USA so I think I can legally say that)

Alan
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Old 18-12-2013, 04:27   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hkalan View Post
Hello,

I had a meeting today with the local electrical building inspector. I showed him the 250v 10amp/115v 15amp USA style receptacle. He said they will work with the 14AWG wire on the Bertram.

He contacted a supplier here that has the NEMA 6 (110v 15amp/250v 10amp) that would be better and fit the boxes/covers, so there is no chance anyone would be able to plug in a standard 115v appliance. They are only $2.50 USD. (picture is attached)

This is good news ! Thanks for all the great feedback ! You put me on the right path !

Have a Very Merry Christmas everyone !!!! (as I am outside the USA so I think I can legally say that)

Alan
Just exactly what will you plug into these and actually get adapters

Dave
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Old 18-12-2013, 05:00   #21
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Re: AC wall outlets

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Originally Posted by Hkalan View Post
I had a meeting today with the local electrical building inspector. I showed him the 250v 10amp/115v 15amp USA style receptacle. He said they will work with the 14AWG wire on the Bertram.

He contacted a supplier here that has the NEMA 6 (110v 15amp/250v 10amp) that would be better and fit the boxes/covers, so there is no chance anyone would be able to plug in a standard 115v appliance.
Very happy to see you got this sorted in a safe and sensible manner.

It would have been very irresponsible to put 230 v onto North American style 120v outlets. Not from a current or insulation point of view, but simply because someone could and eventually would have plugged a 120 v unit into it, with less than beneficial results.
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Old 18-12-2013, 05:08   #22
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AC Wall Outlets

Hello,

We have the Hoover that would use one receptacle in different areas, a set of lamps the wife likes in the saloon, in the master bathroom the wife has a funky lighted make-up mirror, and we may use one to plug in an Apple AirPort Extreme.

All low watt items. All the other high watt items have new circuits with the UK style receptacle.

Alan
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Old 18-12-2013, 05:13   #23
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Re: AC wall outlets

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A NEMA 6-15 receptacle will fit to replace a standard NEMA 5-15 receptacle and the NEMA 6-15 is used for 208 VAC and 240 VAC circuits, so no problem plugging an appliance into the wrong voltage.
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Originally Posted by Hkalan View Post
I had a meeting today with the local electrical building inspector. I showed him the 250v 10amp/115v 15amp USA style receptacle. He said they will work with the 14AWG wire on the Bertram.

He contacted a supplier here that has the NEMA 6 (110v 15amp/250v 10amp) that would be better and fit the boxes/covers, so there is no chance anyone would be able to plug in a standard 115v appliance. They are only $2.50 USD. (picture is attached)

The NEMA 6-20 receptacle shown in the image will ensure it only is used to provide the correct voltage to appliances.

That receptacle will permit connecting appliances drawing 20A to the circuit. It may be a better choice to use the NEMA 6-15 receptacle to prevent overloading the current.
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Old 18-12-2013, 05:26   #24
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Re: AC Wall Outlets

Hello,

The only outlets that will have these NEMA 6 receptacles are the ones that have the teak wood cover plates. All others are replaced with the UK style receptacles. Just want to keep the Bertram looking as she did in 1982.

The NEMA 6 receptacles will never have any appliance that consumes over 4 amps, so we are good to go with the 10amp 250v.

Alan
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Old 18-12-2013, 05:36   #25
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Re: AC Wall Outlets

Why not use the desired receptacles and find a source for new teak cover plates?
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Old 18-12-2013, 05:37   #26
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Re: AC Wall Outlets

Alan-
"the NEMA 6 (110v 15amp/250v 10amp)"
I don't know the "official" logic, but would expect that since a 220/250V line is carrying twice the wattage, compared to a 110/120 line at the same amperage, that double wattage has to create more heat in the wires, and that would be the reason to derate the ampacity. Which might be why NEMA shows 110/15A versus 250/10A, instead of showing the same 15A service at both voltages. I don't think "simple" ampacity reflects the whole picture, but then again, I've only had to work with Mr. Edison's voltages.
Since the sockets are being de-rated from 15A to 10A, it would seem likely that the breakers should be similarly de-rated (if need be) to protect the outlets, the weakest link, even if the wiring can take it.
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Old 18-12-2013, 05:41   #27
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Re: AC Wall Outlets

Hello,

Receptacles are more easy to locate then teak covers that have aged equally with the teak wood walls since 1982.

She is a beautiful interior !!!

Alan
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Old 18-12-2013, 05:48   #28
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Re: AC Wall Outlets

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Alan-
"the NEMA 6 (110v 15amp/250v 10amp)"
I don't know the "official" logic, but would expect that since a 220/250V line is carrying twice the wattage, compared to a 110/120 line at the same amperage, that double wattage has to create more heat in the wires, and that would be the reason to derate the ampacity. Which might be why NEMA shows 110/15A versus 250/10A, instead of showing the same 15A service at both voltages. I don't think "simple" ampacity reflects the whole picture, but then again, I've only had to work with Mr. Edison's voltages.
Since the sockets are being de-rated from 15A to 10A, it would seem likely that the breakers should be similarly de-rated (if need be) to protect the outlets, the weakest link, even if the wiring can take it.
Your expectation is wrong. Doubling the voltage provides for double the wattage but it does not "create more heat in the wires"! When it comes to choosing a circuit breaker "simple" ampacity is the whole picture.
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Old 18-12-2013, 05:50   #29
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Re: AC Wall Outlets

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I don't know the "official" logic, but would expect that since a 220/250V line is carrying twice the wattage, compared to a 110/120 line at the same amperage, that double wattage has to create more heat in the wires
Your logic is flawed. Heating in wire is only dependent on the amperage. Voltage has nothing to do with it. The formula for power lost in a wire is I*I*R where I is the current and R is the resistance of the wire. Voltage appears nowhere in the formula for power loss in wires.
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Old 18-12-2013, 05:51   #30
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Re: AC Wall Outlets

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
I don't know the "official" logic, but would expect that since a 220/250V line is carrying twice the wattage, compared to a 110/120 line at the same amperage, that double wattage has to create more heat in the wires, and that would be the reason to derate the ampacity. Which might be why NEMA shows 110/15A versus 250/10A, instead of showing the same 15A service at both voltages.
Current is current. For a given circuit, 10A @ 115 vac will generate exactly the same heat in the circuit's wire as 10A @ 230 vac.

The reason the outlet is derated at the higher voltage is because the higher voltage will produce a bigger arc when you plug/unplug a load, and will produce more heat into a poor outlet connection.

(ok - dotDun & Dan beat me to it )
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