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EllisElectric · 16-11-2015, 14:39

Are there boats constructed that violates any of the ABYC standards? Meaning what are the most common violated standards? Does anyone have any standards of their own that you wish builders would implement? Are ABYC standards higher than other standards around the world?

**estarzinger** · 16-11-2015, 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by EllisElectric

Are there boats constructed that violates any of the ABYC standards?
yes, certainly. Abyc is voluntary. Beneteau, for one follows CE -is required to - and violates some ABYC standards.

Meaning what are the most common violated standards?
not specific enough question. Do you mean in units sold? Sailboats or small power boats, or. . . . .

Does anyone have any standards of their own that you wish builders would implement?
loyds commercial standards + solas

Are ABYC standards higher than other standards around the world?
No

whats your point?
.........

EllisElectric · 16-11-2015, 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by estarzinger

whats your point?
.........

My point is to rate builders based on established standards and to learn to most common violations builders make cutting corners.

Quote:

not specific enough question. Do you mean in units sold? Sailboats or small power boats,

Sailboats are the boats I'm referring to

**sailorchic34** · 16-11-2015, 17:21

For recreational boats ABYC is a recommend standard in the US, but is not code. For light commercial boats (not ships) it is code (Adopted per CFR 46). Recreation boats are covered by CFR 33 in the us and that leaves much to be desired. Other standards in the EU and elsewhere will be different and in many cases better. Least wise to my poor eyes. Though it varies a bit.

I think the EU codes for electrical are probably better, safer then ABYC. They require a GFCI main breaker where ABYC only requires GFCI outlets (I think- she says fingers crossed)

Most of the issues with new boats deals more with build quality then say with code violations or shortcuts. The use of brass ball valves by at least one sailboat manufacturer that need to be replaced within 5 years or so comes to mind. But from an electrical 12V or 120V standpoint they will follow acceptable standards.

Though the 12V panel might be small or not have enough breakers for the extra's, Or wires might only meet minimum circuit capacity requirements.

The danger is what the dreaded previous owner(s) did with the boat. Most used boats have a rats nest of wires run hither in yon. Some have hot and neutral reversed generally around the battery charger. Lots of fun. But a new boat generally should not have too many issues.

boatpoker · 16-11-2015, 18:00

I have been going to the Toronto boat show for 20yrs with the specific goal of finding a boat that conforms to
A. Transport Canada Construction Standards For Small Vessels.
and/or
B. ABYC Standards and Technical Information Reports For Small Craft.

I have not found one single boat that met either of these.

note: I mean boats larger than 24' or so.

EllisElectric · 16-11-2015, 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatpoker

I have been going to the Toronto boat show for 20yrs with the specific goal of finding a boat that conforms to
A. Transport Canada Construction Standards For Small Vessels.
and/or
B. ABYC Standards and Technical Information Reports For Small Craft.

I have not found one single boat that met either of these.

note: I mean boats larger than 24' or so.

Boatpoker, could you describe some of the cases you observed?

smac999 · 16-11-2015, 18:05

I rarely see ELCI main breakers which is now required. but I also rarely see new boats.

boatpoker · 16-11-2015, 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by EllisElectric

Boatpoker, could you describe some of the cases you observed?

inverters and or chargers mounted directly over batteries.
Non-ignition proof chargers in gasoline engine compartments.
Inverters and/or chargers in unventilated compartments.
Diesel fuel filters without heat shields in engine compartments.
AC wires rated for 220volts on 120volt boats (French)
Stern lights blocked by shape of hull (sugar scoop transom, dinghy davits. stern rail seating etc.).
Tri-lights without bow/stern running lights.
Batteries venting into accomodation spaces.
AC and DC sharing same panels without proper separation.
No chafe protection on propane fuel hose.
Propane solenoid controls behind stove.
No fire port.

There are dozens more if I took the time to make a list.

AnchorageGuy · 17-11-2015, 08:24

No one but the extremely wealthy could afford a boat built completely to ABYC Standards. Chuck

Stu Jackson · 17-11-2015, 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

The danger is what the dreaded previous owner(s) did with the boat. Most used boats have a rats nest of wires run hither in yon. Some have hot and neutral reversed generally around the battery charger. Lots of fun. But a new boat generally should not have too many issues.

Very good observation.

My experience (17 years as Catalina 34 International Association Secretary and the last three or four years with the new C355 group), the newer boats are coming with heavier wiring to support increased electrical loads compared to boats of my vintage (1986). Fuses are being installed at the batteries. Basically, they are safer and meet most ABYC recommendations.

But where the boat builders have not been brought into the 21st century is taking the alternator output and routing it to the house bank (getting it off a switch) and installing ACRs or VSRs or relays for the reserve bank, and they're still going out of the factory with non-deep cycle 4D batteries. If they'd at least give knowledgeable owners the options of golf cart batteries and make the damn built-in battery boxes big enough and deep enough for golf carts, they'd help a lot when unknowledgeable owners wisen up. Having a route and a sealable deck opening for solar wiring would help, too.

boatpoker's details are very good, too.

windwalkr · 17-11-2015, 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatpoker

inverters and or chargers mounted directly over batteries.

AC wires rated for 220volts on 120volt boats (French)

There are dozens more if I took the time to make a list.

Sorry to deviate from the topic a little.. As I am in the process of Wiring a boat, your comment made me curious. I am familiar with American NEC code as it relates to residential and commercial wiring, but what is the difference with 220v and 120v in boats? I tried to google search this, but came up with nothing useful. Do they use 220v coloring? Are the gauges different?

Thanks

**sailorchic34** · 17-11-2015, 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by windwalkr

Sorry to deviate from the topic a little.. As I am in the process of Wiring a boat, your comment made me curious. I am familiar with American NEC code as it relates to residential and commercial wiring, but what is the difference with 220v and 120v in boats? I tried to google search this, but came up with nothing useful. Do they use 220v coloring? Are the gauges different?

Thanks

EU boats are 220V and will have smaller gauge wire compared to 120V US boats. So when someone converts a EU boat's 220V to 120V the existing wiring would then be undersized for the circuit.

boatpoker · 17-11-2015, 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by windwalkr

Sorry to deviate from the topic a little.. As I am in the process of Wiring a boat, your comment made me curious. I am familiar with American NEC code as it relates to residential and commercial wiring, but what is the difference with 220v and 120v in boats? I tried to google search this, but came up with nothing useful. Do they use 220v coloring? Are the gauges different?

Thanks

220v uses lighter gauge wire (remember ... voltage up-current down). 120v needs a heavier gauge due to the higher current. Many (most ?) French boats were built for 220v and when shipped to NA all they did was change the inlets to 30amp/120v while leaving the thinner wire...... not a healthy thing to do.

Stu Jackson · 17-11-2015, 11:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatpoker

220v uses lighter gauge wire (remember ... voltage up-current down). 120v needs a heavier gauge due to the higher current. Many (most ?) French boats were built for 220v and when shipped to NA all they did was change the inlets to 30amp/120v while leaving the thinner wire...... not a healthy thing to do.

I'm not sure about this higher current comment. It appears that for the same current, the wire has to be bigger for 120V.