About to order a flagship marine unit

[sailnow2011]

Hi, I am set to place my order for a flagship marine AC unit, 20,000BTU tomorrow.
Any reason not to?
I have only found two complaints about them online, and they both seem weird.
Thank you!

[svHyLyte]

Originally Posted by sailnow2011

Hi, I am set to place my order for a flagship marine AC unit, 20,000BTU tomorrow.
Any reason not to?
I have only found two complaints about them online, and they both seem weird.
Thank you!

There are several threads dealing with marine air conditioning on the Forum and there seems to be two schools of thought on Flagship--that they are good (a few)/that they are bad (a few more). Some have had good luck with their machines, others not, and service seems inconsistent, good for some, poor for others. We know several people that had them and moved on to other units after too many difficulties. Others hereabouts have them and seem quite happy.

Before placing your order, you might look into (click on) KingAir. The machines work well/reliably and the post-sale service is very good.

N'any case, take a look at some of the other threads using the Search function, above, before making a final decision. It's a costly purchase and can be very frustrating if things don't go well.

FWIW...

[a64pilot]

I should have gone with the King unit, but wanted to save a few bucks so I didn't, when this one needs replacing, I will spend the extra cash and go with the King unit.

[Outlaw7]

Hello,
What A/C unit did you end up with?

I read the same posts and it seems like most problems with the units have been installation errors. The Flagship units look very well built and use a very simple control circuit. The King Air units are all painted and I don't like that.

[rwidman]

I installed a Flagship AC with electric resistance heating after two unrepairable failures with Marine Air units.

So far, I am pleased. It's been a couple of years.

[sailnow2011]

I am picking up the 20K btu unit Tuesday.
Got it with heat, good build updates. Guess I am not getting one that has been on the shelf for years at least.

[Raven Odyssey]

Originally Posted by sailnow2011

Hi, I am set to place my order for a flagship marine AC unit, 20,000BTU tomorrow.
Any reason not to?
I have only found two complaints about them online, and they both seem weird.
Thank you!

I've got three Flagship Marine A/C units onboard. They are less than 3 years old and I've had trouble with EVERY SINGLE UNIT. When I finally get tired of fixing them, I'll choose another manufacturer to replace the units.

I went with Flagship because the simplicity in design and field-repairable components. It was only after they started failing that I learned both points to be mainly marketing rhetoric. Yes, the Flagship units are simpler than other manufacturers, but they are featureless in comparison.

My advice would be to talk to a professional A/C installer or technician. Show them as much as you can about The Flagship unit, and trust what they tell you. I did not heed the advise my installer gave me, and I've paid the price of my ignorance.

If you've got your heart set on the Flagship A/C, and want some advise as to what to watch out for, feel free to PM me and I'll fill you in on some of the failures we have had, and what you can do to prevent them yourself.

[sailnow2011]

Originally Posted by Raven Odyssey

I've got three Flagship Marine A/C units onboard. They are less than 3 years old and I've had trouble with EVERY SINGLE UNIT. When I finally get tired of fixing them, I'll choose another manufacturer to replace the units.

I went with Flagship because the simplicity in design and field-repairable components. It was only after they started failing that I learned both points to be mainly marketing rhetoric. Yes, the Flagship units are simpler than other manufacturers, but they are featureless in comparison.

My advice would be to talk to a professional A/C installer or technician. Show them as much as you can about The Flagship unit, and trust what they tell you. I did not heed the advise my installer gave me, and I've paid the price of my ignorance.

If you've got your heart set on the Flagship A/C, and want some advise as to what to watch out for, feel free to PM me and I'll fill you in on some of the failures we have had, and what you can do to prevent them yourself.

PLEASE for everyone's sake, make it all public. My lifetime marine AC installer, Mike, had only a single bad thing to say about them. He said they were large in size, otherwise industrially built.

Please list the issues, the only issue I found online while researching was a leak. Also what is the vintage of the units?

[Raven Odyssey]

Originally Posted by sailnow2011

PLEASE for everyone's sake, make it all public. My lifetime marine AC installer, Mike, had only a single bad thing to say about them. He said they were large in size, otherwise industrially built.

Please list the issues, the only issue I found online while researching was a leak. Also what is the vintage of the units?

I am not going to write pages upon pages of making everything public for everyone's sake. I've given a general overview of my experience and an opinion of the units overall. If you want every minute detail of what I've had to do to make my units serviceable, you can PM me.

However, I'll give you a few areas of the units to consider...

1.) Transformers, from the factory, are 4-wire units that only utilize 2 wires. The extra, unused wires are left dangling and unprotected. Any moisture in the drain pan, if meeting with these wires, draws current and effectively turns the saltwater drain pan into a battery.

2.) The high pressure relief valve (?) is nearly inaccessible. This makes checking the low side pressure almost impossible. After two rather expensive compressors, we have have the units re-worked so the valves are more accessible. This does not really explain the failure in the first place, only our remedy.

3.) The design of the expansion valves do not perform as stated in the Flagship literature. They actually do a very poor job of modulating refrigerant and the unit becomes more of a very expensive fan rather than an A/C unit.

4.) The combination and proximity of differing metals (with differing nobilities) making contact with each other promotes galvanic corrosion. For instance, that nicely laser-cut coil guard, if not insulated, makes contact with the copper coils as well as the stainless drain pan. Add a small amount of electricity (see #1, above) and you will have holes in everything. I've never seen anodes on a self contained A/C unit, but the Flagship Marine product certainly needs them.

5.) The thermostats are crap. Easy enough to fix. Any Honeywell product will do the trick, look better, and cost half the price of the cheaply made Flagship units. We replaced all three within two months of initial installation.

I've said plenty. I have plenty more...

[rwidman]

If we all post why we don't like a particular brand, there will be none left to buy.

Don't buy a marine air or their sister brand, cruise air. The refrigerant will leak out through a pinhole in the compressor that can't be fixed.

Next:

[Raven Odyssey]

Originally Posted by rwidman

If we all post why we don't like a particular brand, there will be none left to buy.

Don't buy a marine air or their sister brand, cruise air. The refrigerant will leak out through a pinhole in the compressor that can't be fixed.

Next:

I was attempting to give my opinion without the intention of trashing Flagship's reputation - which is pretty good.

I think too many details can lead to the same problems as too few because we get so wound up, it is difficult to remain objective.

[sailnow2011]

Originally Posted by Raven Odyssey

I am not going to write pages upon pages of making everything public for everyone's sake. I've given a general overview of my experience and an opinion of the units overall. If you want every minute detail of what I've had to do to make my units serviceable, you can PM me.

However, I'll give you a few areas of the units to consider...

1.) Transformers, from the factory, are 4-wire units that only utilize 2 wires. The extra, unused wires are left dangling and unprotected. Any moisture in the drain pan, if meeting with these wires, draws current and effectively turns the saltwater drain pan into a battery.

2.) The high pressure relief valve (?) is nearly inaccessible. This makes checking the low side pressure almost impossible. After two rather expensive compressors, we have have the units re-worked so the valves are more accessible. This does not really explain the failure in the first place, only our remedy.

3.) The design of the expansion valves do not perform as stated in the Flagship literature. They actually do a very poor job of modulating refrigerant and the unit becomes more of a very expensive fan rather than an A/C unit.

4.) The combination and proximity of differing metals (with differing nobilities) making contact with each other promotes galvanic corrosion. For instance, that nicely laser-cut coil guard, if not insulated, makes contact with the copper coils as well as the stainless drain pan. Add a small amount of electricity (see #1, above) and you will have holes in everything. I've never seen anodes on a self contained A/C unit, but the Flagship Marine product certainly needs them.

5.) The thermostats are crap. Easy enough to fix. Any Honeywell product will do the trick, look better, and cost half the price of the cheaply made Flagship units. We replaced all three within two months of initial installation.

I've said plenty. I have plenty more...

Your time is appreciated, You did not mention vintage.
Any more failure issues would be great.
Photos of the high pressure side and low pressure side of my unit, attached.

[Raven Odyssey]

Originally Posted by sailnow2011

Your time is appreciated, You did not mention vintage.
Any more failure issues would be great.
Photos of the high pressure side and low pressure side of my unit, attached.

Brand new and made to order in 2014. It looks like you, too removed the nicely cut cover. Seems a shame to throw away a piece so precisely engineered (smirk).

My units are similar to yours.

[sailnow2011]

Originally Posted by Raven Odyssey

Brand new and made to order in 2014. It looks like you, too removed the nicely cut cover. Seems a shame to throw away a piece so precisely engineered (smirk).

My units are similar to yours.

No, they just sent me photos of the unit, while it was being made.

[Raven Odyssey]

Originally Posted by sailnow2011

No, they just sent me photos of the unit, while it was being made.

I hope you have good luck with yours. Be sure to ask Flagship LOTS of questions while you are at this stage of the purchase. Other than installation instructions, you get no documentation (i.e. Instruction manual), and support after the purchase leaves a lot to be desired.

Again, best of luck. Maybe if you only use yours occasionally, it will hold up better than mine.