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12-01-2018, 12:39
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Iowa
Boat: 2012 Seaward 32 RK
Posts: 242
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4200 or 5200?
I am installing a "U" bolt, actually a bow eye on my sprit to attach a code zero to. This is going on a Seaward 32RK. It will need to be drilled through. Should I use 3m 5200 or 4200 for this. Attached are pics of the bolt and where it will go. Also, should I apply the sealant then wait a day before tightening like I was bedding something, or just make sure it's well coated and torque it down when I install it?
Special thanks to Adam down at Hake Marine / Island Packet in Largo FL. He has provided amazing customer service over the last year. They are great folks down there if you ever get to meet them. I got to visit last year.
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12-01-2018, 12:47
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#2
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cat herder, extreme blacksheep
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 18,967
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Re: 4200 or 5200?
5200 is not a bedding compound.
it is a glue.
for bedding you want 4200 or similar.
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12-01-2018, 15:16
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#3
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,154
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Re: 4200 or 5200?
You don't say, but I'll assume that the sprit is timber. In your place, I'd be sure to soak the drilled holes with epoxy, perhaps thinned a bit to promote penetration, prior to setting the U-bolt. I'd use 4200 or any other bedding compound, liberally smeared on the threaded portions of t he bolt and making sure that there was a bead at either end after pushing it through the holes. Then bring the nuts up to full torque and let it set up. should be fine for a long time.
Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
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12-01-2018, 15:23
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#4
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,351
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4200 or 5200?
Assuming the sprit is like an IP’s, when I installed my chain stopper I first drilled through the sprit with a 5/16’s bit, then drilled down to the bottom layer of fiberglass with a 3/8’s bit. I then installed the 5/16” studs and cast them in with the slowest cure West system epoxy, at least one had to be refilled as there was obviously a crack, void, or something that allowed the epoxy to soak in. Reasoning was to completely encapsulate the bolts in epoxy to make darn sure no water could intrude.
However if your anchor roller is like an IP’s there is no need to drill through the sprit, just attach to the end of the roller itself like this.
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12-01-2018, 16:29
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 13,480
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Re: 4200 or 5200?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate
You don't say, but I'll assume that the sprit is timber. In your place, I'd be sure to soak the drilled holes with epoxy, perhaps thinned a bit to promote penetration, prior to setting the U-bolt. I'd use 4200 or any other bedding compound, liberally smeared on the threaded portions of t he bolt and making sure that there was a bead at either end after pushing it through the holes. Then bring the nuts up to full torque and let it set up. should be fine for a long time.
Jim
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Sure looks like fiberglass in the pic to me, but maybe the OP can post the construction details...is it wood, solid glass, cored?
That will help answer the question.
(short rant
Or rather...to repharse the question to the correct question and then answer that...because the answer as the question is post is "no". Both are adhesives. Rhetorical question: why do things which are thru bolted need to be glued? They dont of course.
"Devil's Glue" (5200) is way over used in applications where its really not the ideal solution...such as where no adhesive is needed...and its not that good of a bedding compound.
5200 over use is one of my pet peeves, but you wanna know what really peeves me...being forced to use it because its all the local chandlery stocks! 😠 I just had to do that...not happy about it.😠
There. Now I feel a little better, but Im still pissed there is more 5200 on my boat. 😆
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12-01-2018, 16:36
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Oregon
Boat: Seafarer36c
Posts: 5,563
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Re: 4200 or 5200?
[QUOTE=belizesailor;2554290]
..being forced to use it because its all the local chandlery stocks! 😠 I just had to do that...not happy about it.😠
Makes me think of the chandlery's in all the shithole countries around the world.
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12-01-2018, 16:39
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 13,480
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Re: 4200 or 5200?
[QUOTE=Ecos;2554292]
Quote:
Originally Posted by belizesailor
..being forced to use it because its all the local chandlery stocks! 😠 I just had to do that...not happy about it.😠
Makes me think of the chandlery's in all the shithole countries around the world.
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Yeah, I just added a couple of tubes of 4000UV to my recent order.
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12-01-2018, 16:58
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Morrisburg, ON
Boat: 1976 Bayfield 32
Posts: 1,203
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Re: 4200 or 5200?
Simple answer: We don't use 3M 5200. We used to use 4200, but now use 4000.
These are paintable.
We always tape around the fitting (tape the fitting as well) about 1mm away from the join. We apply a generous layer of the compound, using small pieces of wood to keep the space open if needed. Apply the fitting. Make sure all bolts are wiped clean before curing. Loosely attach nuts/screws to hold in place.
Remove the tape after fitting and clean up with paper towels to smooth down the join. If you're using black caulk it makes a mess, so be diligent with clean up.
Allow to cure for a day or so (see instructions, depends on temp/humidity). Then tighten the fastenings.
If you do this right, you will have a gasket of 1-2mm which, if needed, you can cut through with a sharp blade to remove the fitting, but which will otherwise hold the fitting and keep the holes waterproof.
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13-01-2018, 03:52
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Iowa
Boat: 2012 Seaward 32 RK
Posts: 242
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Re: 4200 or 5200?
Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot
However if your anchor roller is like an IP’s there is no need to drill through the sprit, just attach to the end of the roller itself like this. Attachment 162094
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That sounds interesting. What did you do to attach? Just drill a hole through the side of the guide? Here's a couple more pictures so you can see. It's a glass sprit and how the rollers look.
I wonder if that forestay plate is just screwed to the sprit. I could just add another one of those?
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13-01-2018, 04:33
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2008
Boat: 2017 Leopard 40
Posts: 2,662
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Re: 4200 or 5200?
Yes, 5200 is a bonding material not to be used for bedding. 4200 is also a bonding material, but less permanent and also not very good for bedding. Bolds don’t need bonding material.
The best bedding compounds stay flexible and tacky. I like butyl rubber or lifecaulk for removable fittings.
Also, to those of you who like to let a bonding material setup before tightening: I think you should reconsider that in doing so you are breaking the bond when you tighten. It would be more effective to just apply, tighten, and leave it sealed. (Leaving extra thickness to form a gasket is only asking for more movement between the parts later, and allows water intrusion into the tiny gaps that would form).
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13-01-2018, 08:37
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Marina del Rey, California
Boat: President 43 Sportfish
Posts: 4,105
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Re: 4200 or 5200?
5200 would be fine for this. Also 4000.
__________________
1st rule of yachting: When a collision is unavoidable, aim for something cheap.
"whatever spare parts you bring, you'll never need"--goboatingnow
"Id rather drown than have computers take over my life."--d design
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13-01-2018, 11:31
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 13,480
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Re: 4200 or 5200?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Nova
5200 would be fine for this...
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13-01-2018, 11:49
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 25,482
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Re: 4200 or 5200?
I dont like 4200 at all. It firms up kinda like plastic and you can roll it right off the surface. I would use 5200 for that, but there are many 5200 haters on this forum. It is tenacious, which is why I use it. If not 5200 use something other than 4200 IME.
I usually tighten somewhat then final tighten the following day.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard
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