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Old 03-05-2013, 07:13   #1
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3M 5200 application question

My CP, current project, has a poorly fitted fixed port lights. They are lexan drilled and screwed to the underlying fiberglass and filler. There is no core in this area and as such the screws are shallow.

I would like to replace them with tempered 1/4" glass and avoid drilling through the cabin side for through bolts and framing. My thought is to frost an inch of glass all the way around use 5200 as the primary fastening. In other words, glued in glass.

5200's data sheet specifically recommends against application on glass. But maybe frosted first?
Thought? Experience?
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:21   #2
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Re: 3M 5200 application question

i wouldnot use 5200 ..... i would use 4200. or silkaflex or boatlife caulk....unless you want to GLUE something, avoid the 5200.
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:44   #3
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Re: 3M 5200 application question

As much as I abhor silicone caulk on a boat, it would be my adhesive of choice for glass.
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:48   #4
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Re: 3M 5200 application question

Yes, Z. Glue is exactly what I want. I want the window to break before the bond lets go. And tempered glass that thick is very hard to break. My question is will the 5200 adhere well to the frosted edges?
Thank you,
D.
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:54   #5
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Re: 3M 5200 application question

Yes it will. I would additionally use an acid etch on the glass before applying the 5200.
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:54   #6
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Re: 3M 5200 application question

3m has I think two sealants/adhesives for glass, 4000UV being one of them

silkaflex 296 is also especially developed for binding marine window applications.

5200 is not a primary glass binding adhesive

Check what primers if any are required

also correspond with the relevant technical departments of the manufacturer. I found Silkaflex very good in this regard. Most quality manufacturers have a particular bonding protocol for these applications.

if the window pane is large, you will need a jib to hold it in place as it cures as it will not hold position itself

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Old 03-05-2013, 07:56   #7
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Re: 3M 5200 application question

I second 4200... I could never understand when I would start to work on a project for client, and they or some previous owner went to town with 5200... Have you ever tried removing a thru hull fitting that has been 5200'ed in???
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:59   #8
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Re: 3M 5200 application question

4200 is not reccomnded for bonding unsupported glass

"- Fast Cure 4200 is not recommended for the installation of glass, polycarbonate or acrylic windows that are not also mechanically fastened. Inconsistent adhesion of these unprimed substrates, specific design of the window and movement due to thermal expansion and flexing, may cause application failure."

3m makes specific products for this type of thing.

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Old 03-05-2013, 09:27   #9
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Re: 3M 5200 application question

I love 5200. Yes I've removed thru hulls that are installed with it. It's very easy. You warm the thru hull with a propane torch and they pop right off.

That said I don't think 5200 would be a good in this application. 3M warns that it should not be exposed to sun light and I bet the glass would let enough UV through to break down the 5200 over a period of time.

Thermal expansion of the glass might be an issue as well.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:32   #10
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Re: 3M 5200 application question

goboating now is correct about bonding to glass. Use the best bonding compound for glass.

This topic has been discussed in a number of other threads if you want to do a search on the topic.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:47   #11
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Re: 3M 5200 application question

I've found 4200 to have very low adhesive power and would avoid it for that. Cant determine why 5200 wouldnt work, but most people today would use Butyl tape I think, or better yet, use the special glass adhesive/caulk used on skyscrapers. There was a thread a while back that someone listed these.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:56   #12
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Re: 3M 5200 application question

Ah, Captian Ron comes to mind when I think about skyscraper windows.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:13   #13
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Re: 3M 5200 application question

4200 is just a fast cure version of 5200 and not a very good sealant. Great adhesive but lossy sealant. Both 5200 and 4200 have poor UV and weather resistance.
I would recommend you use Dow 795. It is a high quality silicone developed for installing windows in buildings. Do not use a cheap silicone from the hardware store. You could also use a silicone hybrid like 3m 4000 UV but the Dow has an excellent track record. A proper job with 795 and you will not be able to remove the glass without breaking it.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:28   #14
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Re: 3M 5200 application question

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailvayu View Post
4200 is just a fast cure version of 5200 and not a very good sealant. Great adhesive but lossy sealant. Both 5200 and 4200 have poor UV and weather resistance.
I would recommend you use Dow 795. It is a high quality silicone developed for installing windows in buildings. Do not use a cheap silicone from the hardware store. You could also use a silicone hybrid like 3m 4000 UV but the Dow has an excellent track record. A proper job with 795 and you will not be able to remove the glass without breaking it.
hmmm.... I'm thinking just the opposite, 5200 a great adhesive and sealant, 4200 not so good as adhesive but not too bad as sealant....
although your Dow recommendation may be right on...JMHO
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:43   #15
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Re: 3M 5200 application question

Read the 3M spec sheet 5200 and 4200 are both polyurethanes. The problem I have found with polyurethanes is that they have poor UV resistance. The sun will damage the exposed edge and cracks develop. This allows moisture to start to penetrate and it is down hill from there. leaks start and then it can be very difficult to remove the fitting. polyurethanes also have poor heat resistance and do not adhere well to metals as they get hot in the sun. (you would be surprised at just how hot) Once again they partly release allowing moisture in. they have poor oil and chemical resistance. They are not recommend for use on plastic because plastics will leach oils causing release of the sealant.
I used to be a big fan of 5200 years ago but have since had to repair hundreds of leaks from fittings put down with 5200 and curse the stuff for how hard it was to remove the leaking fitting. I do not know any manufactures that will use it anymore due to warranty claims. Honestly I see no use for it other than as an adhesive in weather protected locations anymore.
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