2:1 ratio epoxy recommendations?

[cottonsail]

Raka epoxies, Jupiter fl.

[Stenn]

Originally Posted by minaret

Ah, answered my own questions there. Informative reading on the formulation of Bote Cote here:


Bote-Cote epoxy



I really like the added insect repellent to keep bugs from landing in your clear coat. Genius!


Price isn't bad either. May have to give it a whirl just to see!


http://boatcraft.com.au/Shop/index.p...index&cPath=15

Sorry Minaret, if this Epoxy-brand discussion becomes one of those maffia "they keep dragging me back in!" things, but since you say you have used pretty much everybody's stuff professionally, have you tried Jamestown's "Total Boat" epoxy ? I imagine, professionally, once you've found and settled on the stuff that gets your job done, you're not likely to go experimenting, certainly not "for the fun of it," but thought I'd ask if you (or anyone here) has any comparative experience. I've only used West System so far, and just recently bought Total Boat (it was on sale ☺), when I started getting low on West, but haven't finished it off yet, so actually haven't gotten to the Total Boat stuff yet.

Originally Posted by dick sargent

I've been really satisfied with system 3...3 to

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Stenn

Sorry Minaret, if this Epoxy-brand discussion becomes one of those maffia "they keep dragging me back in!" things, but since you say you have used pretty much everybody's stuff professionally, have you tried Jamestown's "Total Boat" epoxy ? I imagine, professionally, once you've found and settled on the stuff that gets your job done, you're not likely to go experimenting, certainly not "for the fun of it," but thought I'd ask if you (or anyone here) has any comparative experience. I've only used West System so far, and just recently bought Total Boat (it was on sale ☺), when I started getting low on West, but haven't finished it off yet, so actually haven't gotten to the Total Boat stuff yet.

The dilemma lies in the fact there's no perfect epoxy for all purposes nor for every environment. Much depends of the temperature and humidity as of the task in hand. There's also to consider is there an advantage to have different epoxies or something more versatile multipurpose one..

BR Teddy

[honey badger]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

FWIW, the shipwright who built our boat became sensitized to "normal" epoxies and could no longer work in that medium. He has found of late that Bote Cote (not sure if that is exactly the right spelling) resins, a 2:1 ratio mix, do not contain whatever it is that he is sensitive to, and he can safely use that type. He's pretty damn careful nowadays even with the "safe" product, but it has allowed him to continue his trade as before.

Jim

Solvents.

[Stenn]

Originally Posted by coastalexplorer

Terra Nova, That's quite an impressive list that you have in your mobile kit. BUT I did not see White Vinegar on you list, & whats with the 1" throw away brushes? The vinegar is so cheap & cleans them for reuse very effectively.

Of course you can follow up with acetone and dish washing liquid after IF you want perfection. But nothing beats white Vinegar for going green; reuse recycle.

Coastal, thanks for continuing to pass along that tip about vinegar for epoxy cleanup, I had no idea, and just did it last night...works great ! Iwas using a foam "brush" wedge spreader on a West System 105 and 107 hardner mix, and it cleaned out beautifully....this morning no trace of stiffness ! Is there any difference in effectiveness related to which resin/hardner mix you use?

How "saturated" can the solution get before you choose to dump it, i.e. how many "cleans" can you do before you better dump it ?

And, since you mentioned this as a "greener" option than throwing away used brushes, I wonder about that epoxy/vinegar solution ? My neighbor has an old septic hole at the top of my yard, filled in and unused for decades, but sunken a bit, so I've been using that as a sort of composting pit for years, throwing spoiled vegetables, etc. Anybody have any idea what becomes of those components dissolved in vinegar ? My use would not be professional, just some dingy repair/refurb in the backyard, so I might use a gallon or two of vinegar before I'm done.

I'm still hoping someone can weigh in on any experience with Jamestown "Total Boat" epoxy. I've bought it, but haven't finished off my West System yet, though a previous poster just mentioned it's useful to have more than one, depending on application and environmental conditions, so should I not finish off the West System first ?

[Wotname]

Stenn, the acid in the vinegar simply stops the hardener from catalysing the resin. The resin remains largely unchanged chemically and the hardener is slightly changed.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by honey badger

Solvents.

Meaning what exactly? Solvents in the resin were/are sensitizers (that pushed him over the edge), or in the Hardener perhaps? Solvents used for tool cleaning, or wiping down surfaces in preperation for ??? Or are you suggesting something else entirely? And by solvents, which ones are you suggesting were the causitive factors/the ones which we should all watch out for? Also is this comment a guess, an educated guess, or provable fact?

I ask, as I'd sure like to avoid becoming sensitive to the various compounds & elixirs used in boatbuilding & repair. As, most likely, so would everyone else here. So any reference info that you could steer me/us to would be greatly appreciated. And not just you, but anyone reading or commenting on & in this thread.

Yeah, when they were handing out curiosity, they ran out early as I'd done swiped the stockpile already But it does help to keep me learning. Not to mention that it's fun. I mean you've read a bit of Tom Sawyer & Huck Finn, right?

[Stenn]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Stenn, the acid in the vinegar simply stops the hardener from catalysing the resin. The resin remains largely unchanged chemically and the hardener is slightly changed.

Thanks Wot, ...so, what are you saying, don't dump it in the hole at the top of my yard ? I'm not chemically literate to understand if the resin and/or hardner would be environmentally damaging in that old, unused septic field. (also taking into consideration the small amount I'm talking about, a gallon or two of epoxy/vinegar solution) Of course, there is the matter of the poison ivy growing in the hole, so I could just think of my solution-dumping as a convenient herbicide ! ☺ (would it kill it?)

I'd be interested to hear how Coastal disposes of their vinegar solution.

[Terra Nova]

There are public disposal sites for paints, chemicals, drain oil, etc.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Stenn

Thanks Wot, ...so, what are you saying, don't dump it in the hole at the top of my yard ? I'm not chemically literate to understand if the resin and/or hardner would be environmentally damaging in that old, unused septic field. (also taking into consideration the small amount I'm talking about, a gallon or two of epoxy/vinegar solution) Of course, there is the matter of the poison ivy growing in the hole, so I could just think of my solution-dumping as a convenient herbicide ! ☺ (would it kill it?)

I'd be interested to hear how Coastal disposes of their vinegar solution.

No, I wasn't making any comment about how to dispose of the epoxy, just saying the chemical composition of the uncured mixed epoxy is only slightly changed by the addition of vinegar and that change is mainly in the properties of the hardener (ie it no longer catalyses the resin).

[coastalexplorer]

Writing back to answer the questions.
I have found that White Vinegar for clean up has worked for every formulation of Epoxy resin I have used.

For the two large projects of rebuilding the rudder and re-coating the bottom of the hull we used the foam rollers that are put out by west system and just let the resin cure on them when finished as it was discovered years ago that there is no reasonable method found to clean and re-use them. The foam detaches from the cardboard center tube.

So for the small tasks where brushes are used and tools to be cleaned typically I pour less than 3/4" deep in the bottom of a 500 ml plastic Yogurt cup. There seems to be some point in saving this until the next day IF there is more work to be done as it can be used for a pre-wash. Before using fresh vinegar. It is also helpful to use a plastic spreader to squeeze out as much resin that is loaded into the brush as possible. I always wear Nitrile gloves.

After using vinegar wipe it out on something, scrap wood destined for the fire place works. and the bristles will be soft enough to use again the next day. but If left for an extended time will very slowly become stiff.
while I have found Acetone to be very effective on polyester resins. I have not found it helpful on Epoxy as it just makes a sticky mess. However after the vinegar treatment, a paper towel or rag whetted with Acetone, or lacquer thinners. and/or also Dawn dish washing up liquid: Can easily return the bristles to as new condition.

As for disposal of the vinegar. My first point is that I use as small amount as possible to get the job done. Once finished with I pour it into the sand on the side of the gravel driveway. Which already has oil and other contaminates in it. In such minimal quantities... I do not overly concern my self. I certainly do not pour it into drains or anywhere near the farm irrigation ditch. or anywhere near where food is grown.

[HopCar]

All this talk about cleaning up epoxy and you guys don't even use the correct term. The word is de-proxy. As in "Hand me the vinegar, I want to de-poxy this brush."

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by HopCar

All this talk about cleaning up epoxy and you guys don't even use the correct term. The word is de-proxy. As in "Hand me the vinegar, I want to de-poxy this brush."

Yes, clearly it is difficult to get the terminology correct

[Snowpetrel]

I have some minor concerns about using vinegar to clean epoxy off skin. It works very well, but could it help the dangerous toxins in epoxy migrate into your body?

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

I have some minor concerns about using vinegar to clean epoxy off skin. It works very well, but could it help the dangerous toxins in epoxy migrate into your body?

Absolutely! HOT water and soap first. Always.