Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 27-09-2016, 20:06   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tampa, FL
Boat: Yankee 30'
Posts: 138
ZF 6 M, ZF 10 M transmissions

This is scarry. 6 years ago I noticed my Hurth 50 gearbox (on a Universal M25) was reluctant to go into forward. I was in the Med and shopped online for replacement. At that time ZF6M and ZF10M were recomanded replacement for the discontinued Hurth line, both were around $1200 online, but I couldn't fined a convenient dealer and was in hurry to get back home. Since I came back, I kept putting replacing the gearbox, because I was not doing any serious cruising and if I tried many times, eventually the gearbox did go into forward and would work happily for hours. Now it got pretty much impossible to shift into forward and search online came up with prices from $1800 to $2200. Worse, most of the websites said they are out of stock and the ZF manufacturer website lists ZF12M as the smallest transmission they offer for 2016. What is happening?
__________________

__________________
sv.antea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-09-2016, 21:38   #2
Sponsoring Vendor
 
Schooner Chandlery's Avatar

Community Sponsor

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: home port Washington DC
Boat: SS Crocker design #131
Posts: 977
Re: ZF 6 M, ZF 10 M transmissions

Call up these folks and get the scoop. They have a fellow who really knows Hurth and the follow on ZF http://www.merequipment.com/products...CategoryID=134.

Other thing--an oversized Hurth or ZF is not a bad thing.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
"The only noble thing a man can do with money is to build a schooner." Robert Louis Stevenson

Schooner Chandlery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2016, 06:46   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tampa, FL
Boat: Yankee 30'
Posts: 138
Re: ZF 6 M, ZF 10 M transmissions

Thank you Schooner, I will contact them.
I have asked the forum previously about the problem I have been having with the transmission, namely it not going in fwd gear for many tries, but once it does, it doesn't slip and works untill I put it back in neutral. I have rebuilt the transmission in 1985 after salt water got inside and it was working fine untill 2010 and with the occasional reluctance since. I was hoping my previous post would get a response from someone with inside knowleage of the intricate clutch system of springs, ball bearings in their curved tracks and probably involving the innertia of the hubs (I suppose the inertia is stlill in good working order, lol). The responses mostly spoke of worn out clutch plates and slipping, which may be realted, but not exactly my case.
Since then I came across a thread discussing the same problem, but the consensus there was "you need to buy new transmission".
ZF6 was presumable a slight upgrade to Hurth 50, while ZF10M is much sturdier and slightly larger, but could be accomodated in my very tight installation. (It's ~1" longer). Haven't checked ZF12M dimensions yet, but any increase in size will not work.
I could rebuild again, but it doesn't seem outside of clutch plates, seals and gaskets, spare parts would be available. It's possible that replacing the clutch plates will solve the problem, but I'd hate to find out otherwise after buying the kit.
__________________
sv.antea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2016, 08:46   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tampa, FL
Boat: Yankee 30'
Posts: 138
Re: ZF 6 M, ZF 10 M transmissions

OK, I have found the answers and it is not pretty. Indeed, the ZF6M and ZF10M haven't been in production for long while, hence the sharp rise in prices and decline of availabilty. The ZF 12M is too big for my elaborate shoe horn fit and different vertical offset and different gear ratio. I will be rebuilding the old HBW50 one more time, likely using some used parts.
__________________
sv.antea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2016, 09:21   #5
Registered User
 
ErikFinn's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Malaysia, Thailand
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 430
Posts: 806
Re: ZF 6 M, ZF 10 M transmissions

Thanks for posting antea. It would be absolutely fabulous if you could post a thread about the rebuilding with some photos.
__________________
ErikFinn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2016, 10:59   #6
Sponsoring Vendor
 
Schooner Chandlery's Avatar

Community Sponsor

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: home port Washington DC
Boat: SS Crocker design #131
Posts: 977
Re: ZF 6 M, ZF 10 M transmissions

Sorry to hear about your situation of having to use used parts. You might want to check out the boatdiesel forums. I'm a paid member there and find the site useful. You may find parts source or someone to help you out in other ways there.

I have purchased used parts as well as new old stock parts via eBay with success but not for our current boat.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
"The only noble thing a man can do with money is to build a schooner." Robert Louis Stevenson

Schooner Chandlery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-09-2016, 02:58   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: ME: sucking smoke in Oregon; Boats in PE RSA
Boat: Dix 38 pilothouse
Posts: 201
Re: ZF 6 M, ZF 10 M transmissions

ASAP supply , shipped a new zf10 from the uk to Asia for 800 usd

I am in the process of fitting the gearbox with a aftermarket cooler



Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
lamadriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-09-2016, 04:33   #8
Senior Cruiser
 
Sailmonkey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston
Boat: '76 Allied Seawind II, 32'
Posts: 5,552
Re: ZF 6 M, ZF 10 M transmissions

Have you looked at a twin disc/techno drive 340 gear box? It's a bolt on replacement for the zf10. May work for you.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
Sailmonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-09-2016, 09:05   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tampa, FL
Boat: Yankee 30'
Posts: 138
Re: ZF 6 M, ZF 10 M transmissions

Thanks Sailmonkey, I will definitelly look into that. After cycling through the options available on the internet, I came to the conclusion that someone is bound to step into the gap and I should just wait. So TwinDisc did? Let's see if it will fit my insane shoe-horn install and how much it is.
__________________
sv.antea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-09-2016, 16:16   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tampa, FL
Boat: Yankee 30'
Posts: 138
Re: ZF 6 M, ZF 10 M transmissions

Yup, Twin Disc Technodrive TMC 40 P is the new close equivalent. Comparing to HBW 50, it is probably 10mm longer, the the vertical offset 5.5mm larger, the shifter is on port side instead of starboard, the splined input shaft sticks out 28 mm further, but the splines start same 21mm from the housing. Amazingly enough, it will probably fit.
__________________
sv.antea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-09-2016, 12:07   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tampa, FL
Boat: Yankee 30'
Posts: 138
Re: ZF 6 M, ZF 10 M transmissions

Schooner, I have carefully compared dimensions HBW50 and TwinDisc TMC40P and everything looked fine untill I checked the clearance for the shifter lever. There I am missing about 6mm. There is hull there on my sailboat. I just paid $25 for entry level membership BoatDiesel.com, hoping to view a page from the shop manual to see if a protruding stud and nut can be replaced with a bolt, as it is on larger models, but when I got to the page, it told me "members only". Turns out to view that page, I would have to pay $100 for level 2. I wonder if you have level 2 memebership and be willing to copy the shifter detail on page10 and forwarding it. Thanks anyway, Stan
__________________
sv.antea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-09-2016, 12:20   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tampa, FL
Boat: Yankee 30'
Posts: 138
Re: ZF 6 M, ZF 10 M transmissions

Everything looked doable with the switch from Hurth HBW50 to TwinDisc TMC40P, until I checked if I have room for the port side mounted shifter lever.
Ouch. There is the hull there on my boat. The lever is much lower, even with the output shaft axis and not only stick out further, but actually telescopes out further 5mm when taken out of neutral. There is this utterly unnecesary looking stud and nut sticking out of the shifter shaft. On next larger model there is a head of a bolt instead - it doesn't stick out at all. So I want to know if I can replace the stud and nut with a bolt, or just cut off the offending part of the stud? It would fit with that. Any ideas?
__________________

__________________
sv.antea is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
transmission

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Being slightly over-propped enough to burn up 2 transmissions in 400 hours? sgtPluck Propellers & Drive Systems 16 20-06-2011 20:22
Looking for Opinions on Transmissions SabreKai Engines and Propulsion Systems 0 24-07-2010 09:05
Synthetic oil for diesel/transmissions jdoe71 Engines and Propulsion Systems 35 28-09-2007 21:54
Don't Put ATF in Yanmar KBW10 Transmissions Chief Engineer Propellers & Drive Systems 0 26-08-2007 16:18
Transmissions Brent Swain Engines and Propulsion Systems 0 24-03-2004 13:49


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:27.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.