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Old 04-09-2016, 00:00   #76
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Re: YSE8 shattered valve spring! Help?

Ok, that sounds good. Will do.

Now for yet another interesting issue...
I pulled the oil pan, and found out something quite "fun"...


Notice anything odd about the flange on this oil pan? Like, it is missing???

It seems that the port side of this engine is in pretty decent shape. The starboard side, however, seems to have been bathed in some sort of acid that has eaten much of the finish of the parts, as well as aluminum items only on that side. I am thinking that maybe the elbow sprayed saltwater a bit, and the PO did not rinse it, instead maybe attempting to "get by" with it until some later date and a fool such as I came along...

There is no oil residue in the sump under the engine, but I managed to gather a mix of synthetic and normal oil from the pan, in about the consistency at the bottom inch or so like melted peanut butter. The synthetic was floating, so I imagine the other oil was the butter on the bottom, seasoning my pushrod. In any case, I retrieved the pushrod, cleaned it up, and properly seated it in the head/case assembly. The upper works properly now. I think the head gasket looked ok. I cleaned it off and made sure there was no crumb material on it just in case.

The oil pan is another matter. As many of the bolts on the side won't actually penetrate the pan and rather simply sit beside it (), I put some black Permatex on the mating surfaces and tomorrow intend to lather the joint on that side with more, and hopefully just keep the oil below the join when she is not heeling. As far as leaks while she is in a heel...

BTW, this is what the gelcoat used to look like, all spider crackey and all...



Here is a photo of her externally, awaiting some trim paint and a coat or two of ablative bottom paint (this is after I put two coats of polyurethane on the freeboard as the gelcoat was cracked and beat all to hell, now the damage on the side is about invisible if you don't know exactly where to look - someone other than I had a piling collision or something, but now it is fixed and faired by myself and a helper).

A far cry from




I still have to add some zincs to address the lack of them on the shaft, but it is a danged sight nicer now that all the cleaning is done.

Would lack of zincs have allowed that side only of the engine to have lost its aluminum parts if that side had been saturated in salt water for a short time? The scale is everywhere, but that side is VERY dissolved where aluminum parts are, making me think galvanic corrosion of some sort is occurring, and if so, the lack of zincs seems a likely culprit.. Ideas?
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Old 04-09-2016, 00:06   #77
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Re: YSE8 shattered valve spring! Help?

This is the way the engine looks, note the corrosion preference for the port side...



It is just so strange for all the real corrosion to be on only one side...
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Old 04-09-2016, 00:11   #78
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Re: YSE8 shattered valve spring! Help?

By the way, I personally installed the new starter and alternator as the prior starter was missing and the alternator was a shorted, rusted hunk of crap. The originals must have gotten the same rust treatment the oil pan had... Of note is that the engine internals are clean... I now wonder if I could have installed a larger alternator on this engine, as this one is the factory size, 35 amps I think. I would have loved to have been able to toss a 100 amp automotive one on there...
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Old 05-09-2016, 06:19   #79
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Re: YSE8 shattered valve spring! Help?

Wow, oil-pan took 2 DAYS to install...

You would think it would have been easier if half the bolts did not hold anything against the block...

I replaced all 9 of them with stainless steel bolts, along with stainless lock and flat washers. The key turned out to be threading in a back bolt first (not an easy task I may add, given that you cannot see anything back there and no room really exists for your hand if it is still attached to your arm). I held the pan tipped up aft, and was able to then see where the bolt was and where the bolt hole in the block was simultaneously. Once that resolved, the bolting of the pan in place was easier.

As I had easily lost more of the holes on the pan than what remained, I was concerned I could not maintain a good seal, so used black Permatex on both the block and pan, and additionally used a piece of plumbing strap from one useless pan bolt to another on the opposite side to help tightly hold the pan in place while the goop dried.

I then decided that it could not hurt to leave the galvanized strap in place as there is actually a low spot at the knife edge of the pan, roughly 1/4 inch tall and 1/2 inch wide that simply is not there. This would have left a gap, so I filled it well with Permatex black prior to reinstallation of the pan, and after I added oil it seems there are no leaks.

The most trouble was really with just getting the pan to align with holes in the block, and the lack of accessible (and intact) pan flange holes made a difficult job almost impossible. I should have just pulled the engine out, and had I capability to do so I definitely would have. An otherwise simple and cheap operation turned incredibly "fun", but I suppose that is the nature of boats...

After all was nice and solid, I decided to hook the Kingston valve from a bucket of water (that was itself supplied by a freshwater hose) to the inlet on the water pump, connect the new exhaust host to the head and muffler, and ensure the injector lines and throttle were installed properly.

What ensued was sheer pain.

I had forgotten the ignition key at home, so was unable to use the starter. I instead attempted to hand crank the engine. As it now had compression, it was not very easy to turn that crank. Additionally, there is a wood step support that is perfectly positioned to rake the skin off your knuckles as you make each turn (or may even break the finger should the engine fire and not release the crank handle for some reason). After a ton of cranking we realized the transmission was also engaged.

That is when we found out that the fixture that holds the throttle and transmission levers was rotating when the levers were moved, rather than allowing the shift lever to move the rod in the engine compartment. We did manage to get it located into neutral, but it was a real pain and revealed that I had yet another thing to fix. In the boat, out of the boat, in the boat, out of the boat....

Now, it appears that the injector is not allowing fuel into the cylinder, and I suspect that I need to bleed the injector. There is a primer ball on the fuel feed line, and three (yes, three) fuel filters en route to the engine from the tank.

I saw a valve located on the port side of the block, above the starter, that had a drain line that led down to the bilge, but the thing is corroded to the point that it won't allow the threaded stem to rotate with the tools I had on board. I forgot to hit it with PB Blaster before I left the boat for the night, but will do so tomorrow (today I have to catch up with other issues). What is this valve for? There is no oil residue on the drain hose, and I don't see any indication of salt inside the hose either.

I did see a great deal of salt corrosion where some water lines connected to the engine block on that side of the engine, and the likely site of all the corrosion spray on that side of the engine. The hoses are new there, as are the clamps, so it seems that a PO managed to finally repair a leaking hose that is the source of most of my worries in this process. Seems like they could have done it before half the oil pan dissolved, however...

Compass, could you let me know about the injector bleeding issue? Is this valve body halfway down the side of the block the means of doing so? Is there some other way? I am hoping that an air bubble is the only reason the engine won't start. If that is the case, would using the starter be enough to push the air from the injector and bleed it via that route?
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Old 05-09-2016, 11:07   #80
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Re: YSE8 shattered valve spring! Help?

Crack open the injector line at the injector and crank over the engine until you get fuel out of the line.

Interesting lessons to be learned in this thread.
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Old 05-09-2016, 22:17   #81
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Re: YSE8 shattered valve spring! Help?

sorry having laptop problems deep freez has answer but use decompression whilst cranking. if that doesnt work take injector out reattach injecyor line & see if its spraying.ahh my screen is crappn out
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Old 05-09-2016, 23:17   #82
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Re: YSE8 shattered valve spring! Help?

Mr. Sailing Fan,

The Permatex Black bonds well to clean surfaces and is strong. The directions have to be followed and the cure time is especially important if you want half a chance of it working. Probably better off that it didn't start.
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Old 06-09-2016, 21:45   #83
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Re: YSE8 shattered valve spring! Help?

Not sure what valve body u r talkn about on oil pan side is the lift pump & on the head side is the injection pump they should be the only things before injector after the last fuel filter in the fuel line system. My puter screen mite crap out anytime but yea see if fuel getn to injector. I would be happy to see 3 filters in the line, it means you have a much better chance of an ok injection pump & injector. Wow that oil pan& block are sad. I;d say you've picked what caused it.Good thing is there is no real load on it but these engines shake a lot so I'd keep that outboard handy in case of oil leakage. Up the top you are only holding back crank splash. Make sure yr crankcase breather is clear!
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Old 06-09-2016, 22:28   #84
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Re: YSE8 shattered valve spring! Help?

Compass, I broke down this morning early and bought another oil pan. I just could not take the chance that this issue was going to get me. The one I bought is for the sb12, I hope it matches. It looked right...

The valve I am speaking of seems to be a threaded rod with a small pin horizontally penetrating it (making a sort of handle to turn to thread the rod out of the block).

The threaded rod is coming out of a six-sided body or union, which meets against the block. I think that if I use a wrench to unthread that union piece, the entire assembly will come out. I attempted to use a box wrench sideways to turn the valve by the pins, but they started to bend, so I stopped.

It appears that turning the valve OUT will allow this valve (in the side of the block, port side, about halfway vertically between the head and oil pan, and roughly equidistant between the front and back of the block) to vent something into the clear vinyl or rubber hose that routes along the block to open under the engine, freely allowing some sort of liquid (or gas?) into the area under the engine, and I suppose there to drain directly into the bilge. I have no idea what this thing is (I wish I had taken a close up picture of it, it is a petcock of some sort in function).

The breather is clear, and as all the other instances I have seen, there is no intake filter on the breather...

I do get concentrated puffs of air out the exhaust with each cycle of the piston. I also get turning of the prop if the thing is in gear. Additionally, I get skinned knuckles on the side of the teak panel to the starboard side every turn of the manual crank handle!


Almost makes me want to put a tiny car engine in here!
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Old 07-09-2016, 01:00   #85
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Re: YSE8 shattered valve spring! Help?

Sailing fan sorry I put u wrong about the layout of fuel system. I was referring to YSM8 sorry not sure where yr lift pump is in the scheme on YSB8. I think that valve you are talking about is the drain for cooling water. Just unscrew it & look Probably did the right thing gettn another oil pan if it can bolt onto something thats not too corroded. Make sure you put it on full throttle when u r trying to bleed it too.
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Old 07-09-2016, 08:11   #86
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Re: YSE8 shattered valve spring! Help?

Thanks Compass, np on the misunderstanding. I think the lift pump you are speaking of is the round device I could not identify on the starboard side of the front of the block, vertically sending a steel fuel line into the lower part of the injector body assembly via a compression fitting. I was wondering what that was. What does this pump do (yes, I understand it is a "lift pump" but specifically, what role is it playing in the scheme of things)? What happens if it fails or gets air in its line?

Another question, I noticed that the banjo bolts for the fuel system are absent any sort of gasket, when typically in American braking systems, a copper washer would go under the bolt heads. There are apparently no copper washers under any of these, as demonstrated when I removed the lines from the injector body whilst removing the head. No washers were present on the line there, and on inspection, I see none elsewhere either for the fuel system. Is that normal on this engine?

I believe you must be correct about the water drain, as it does go into the bilge and the fine for pumping fuel oil over the side... yikes.... Something like $10K USD!

The block looks intact, and the pan seems to have taken the hit (became a defacto anode, it seems). This new pan has all the holes and structure intact. If it won't directly fit (and it think it will) I will still use it, and fabricate an adapter perhaps. I just don't trust this old original pan to use it under power and even close by offshore or in the freshwater/brackish southern St. John's River.

I will bring the keys with me when I try to start her up next time, but it will likely be after my surgery, so perhaps a week (surgery is this Friday, and they told me I will be "unavailable to your boat" for a few days or even weeks. I don't intend to leave her alone for weeks, but I may have to relent on the "few days" and simply watch someone else paint on her!
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Old 07-09-2016, 17:22   #87
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Re: YSE8 shattered valve spring! Help?

No that round thing that is sending a line to the injector must be the high pressure injection pump. The lift pump is the one that pumps the fuel from the tank but you may be gravity fed for all I know. Yes you should have copper washewrs but nylon ones work better on the low pressure side of the injection pump. . You WILL have problems without sealing washers with either air or fuel leakage so I suggest you get some. Gud LucK my screen is dying
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Old 07-09-2016, 18:08   #88
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Re: YSE8 shattered valve spring! Help? (SB8 confirmed)

Compass, I think I am not entirely gravity fed. After the hand priming bulb, the trio of filters, and the rubber line that goes to the engine, the line goes to what appears to be akin to a 1970's automotive manual fuel pump, the sort that runs on a cam lobe in a relatively "seasoned" car. I am assuming that this device is what you are describing as the lift pump. I forgot about that thing until I reflected a bit upon your latest reply. There is definitely a mechanical fuel pump on the starboard side of the engine.

I will get some washers on these lines ASAP, before I run the starter to death. I have not gone back yet (I am on my liquid diet now, so cannot leave the house until surgery and hospital stay are complete, so maybe a week? Maybe a few days? Or ???). We puzzled about that when we pulled the head, because it was so odd for there to be none there whatever given our experience (my brother in law and myself) over the last 3+ decades of personal automotive work.

There are two lines on the injector body assembly. It looks like the line to the top of the injector is smaller diameter than the line to it's base and I put the bolt with the larger hole on the larger line. I will confirm this for sure when I install these washers (as I need to remove them anyway to install the washers!) but is my logic correct, that the larger passageway hole bolt goes on the larger diameter line? The hole size difference is substantial, as are the line diameters.
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Old 07-09-2016, 21:13   #89
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Re: YSE8 shattered valve spring! Help? (SB8 confirmed)

sailing fan yes that sounds like the lift pump, called that because it lifts the fuel to the injection pump. It will be between the fuel tank & the injection pump . The injection pump drives off the camshaft. The lift pump is grey on the YSM8 but not positive YSB8 is the same but I"m pretty sure the injection pump was black on YSB8. The small line off yr injector is the return line for excess fuel & the big line is the main feed line for the injector. I sent you a PM. Have a look at the vid I talked about in PM it explains a bit about yr injector pump.You need that workshop manual sailing fan.
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Old 07-09-2016, 21:18   #90
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Re: YSE8 shattered valve spring! Help?

Yes larger bolt to larger hole, wont fit any other way I suspect. Put copper washers on injection pump as it mite get too warm for nylon & too high pressure anyway
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