YSE8 shattered valve spring! Help?

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by SailingFan

Heck, what do the Kubotas cost??

Thousands, and over the life of it, you may save hundreds. That is why you don't repower until you have to , then if I could stick a Beta in without having to rebuild the boat, I believe I'd go that way, but not until I have to.


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[sainted]

Originally Posted by sailon46

Sainted hello I have the same engine in a 51.4 beneteau how many hours on your motor and under what load running conditions did your breakdown occur
I'll appreciate it a lot
Ernie on the Mary Janeeace

Hey, Ernie.

My engine had about 500 hours on it when it died, but the failure wasn't wear related. What happened was that the engine flooded due to the improper installation of a dripless shaft seal. The yard hooked the water vent for the seal up to the wrong side of the anti-siphon loop and it siphoned the engine full! The yard got the water out of the engine and got it running, but the corrosion on the valve springs caused two of them to break.

Any who, I wouldn't worry too much about this happening to your engine, though valve springs are a problem with Yanmar engines. Let me know if you have any other questions.

Scott

[SailingFan]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Thousands, and over the life of it, you may save hundreds. That is why you don't repower until you have to , then if I could stick a Beta in without having to rebuild the boat, I believe I'd go that way, but not until I have to.

Tell me about this Beta engine please. Who makes it, what is it, and are there other HP levels that are useful for this 7000 pound vessel? The keel alone weighs more than some automobiles!

I am considering if I want to start watching CL to see if another option comes available, but don't know how high in HP I can go without causing the bow to dig in under power or for cavitation or hull torque to become an issue in a 1978 Hunter hull. Don't misunderstand, this hull seems pretty thick in most areas, especially in the side hull. The bottom, however, seems thinner as I am currently scraping it on the hard, and it oilcans very slightly in one span of the bottom of the hull, specifically aft of the keel, perhaps half way to the rudder, in a roughly square and even area about two feet long and maybe 5 feet wide.

This area is perpendicular to the hull spine and spans across it evenly, and is so even in stiffness that I think it is how the hull was made that is causing the flexibility despite the fact that there is no sign of this flex anywhere else on the craft. Of interest is also that though I seem to have blisters elsewhere (see other thread on haulout), I don't seem to have any in this area, and there is no other sign that it is a patch of any sort. Seems odd..

I am considering the potential for repower with a used engine that I can rebuild prior to installation, so if you (or anyone else) know(s) of a HP limit or have an optimum power suggestion for a 1978 27 foot Hunter, please let me know? I doubt cramming a 350 in there would be a good idea!

[Cheechako]

Did anyone ever figure out which engine this really is? Why not rebuild it? I don't know what a small Beta (Kubota marinized) costs but it's probably more than your boat is worth, I would guess $6k minimum.

[a64pilot]

The Beta is I believe a marinized Kubota engine, I believe they sort of specialize in repowers


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[Elie]

I bought and rebuilt a Yanmar YSE8 last year. I was elated to see how easy it was. I replaced rings, honed the cylinder and resurfaced the valve seats. No problem and the engine restarted right away... Pure joy. My plan was to transform it into a 12 volt gen for my sailboat. But I never finished the transformation, so it is seating in my garage.
In my opinion, a brocken valve spring means a very probable collision between piston and valve, and major destruction in the engine. The best way would be to open the engine and see how things are. That is not a big deal.

[SailingFan]

Well, the current situation is that I got inside the engine compartment (not easy) on the port side, and took a photo with my cell of the engine ID plate (not visible to read from the forward facing access). This is for SURE an SB8 engine, not the SE8. There is no "Y" on the plate preceding the SB8, but it does say Yanmar above the SB8 designator.

I did not hear any pieces rattling around when attempting to start the engine prior to the spring discovery, but if there is a hole in the piston head, that could just mean that the then bent valve is not impacting what has been knocked clear. I am pulling the engine this week, and taking it apart, with intent to rebuild it.

I checked into a repower option, and the 20 HP replacement the Yanmar dealer I located told me about is $6,000 for the engine alone (if I understood him correctly). He said folks wanted all their 12 V items like watermaker, TV, microwave, fridge, etc., and the 100 amp alternator that is installed on the larger engine made those possible while motoring. I am thinking however that a 27 HP engine is not going to be fully useful motoring on this vessel due to the hull speed limitations, but I am open to input on this from others. I don't have the budget currently for such an adventure, but think that it may be an option if the right circumstance presented itself and the Yanmar was in fact damaged beyond repair (highly unlikely, but I suppose a possible condition).

[SailingFan]

I agree the the boat value is far under the cost of a repower, even if I did all work myself. It is barely worth the cost of rebuilding the current engine and performing the refit. I have her on the hard now, and scraping that paint is a real bear. Not to count the blisters...

[Cheechako]

Pull the head before removing the engine. It should take only a half hour or so. No need to presume the piston is damaged. Can you pull the valve in and out with the spring broken?
Heck two guys with the head and starter off etc can probably lift that short block out of the boat so no reason not to pull the head first anyway.

[Compass790]

Originally Posted by SailingFan

Well, the current situation is that I got inside the engine compartment (not easy) on the port side, and took a photo with my cell of the engine ID plate (not visible to read from the forward facing access). This is for SURE an SB8 engine, not the SE8. There is no "Y" on the plate preceding the SB8, but it does say Yanmar above the SB8 designator.

I did not hear any pieces rattling around when attempting to start the engine prior to the spring discovery, but if there is a hole in the piston head, that could just mean that the then bent valve is not impacting what has been knocked clear. I am pulling the engine this week, and taking it apart, with intent to rebuild it.

I checked into a repower option, and the 20 HP replacement the Yanmar dealer I located told me about is $6,000 for the engine alone (if I understood him correctly). He said folks wanted all their 12 V items like watermaker, TV, microwave, fridge, etc., and the 100 amp alternator that is installed on the larger engine made those possible while motoring. I am thinking however that a 27 HP engine is not going to be fully useful motoring on this vessel due to the hull speed limitations, but I am open to input on this from others. I don't have the budget currently for such an adventure, but think that it may be an option if the right circumstance presented itself and the Yanmar was in fact damaged beyond repair (highly unlikely, but I suppose a possible condition).

Yes I agree with Cheechako pull the head first, it's a piece of cake to do if you have enough room to get it off. There is a plate under the starter motor you can access the big-end bearing thru after you remove it & you can then push the piston & con-rod out if necessary. I can lift the block & gearbox by myself after the head is off & starter & alternator are removed ( I weigh about 180lb)
I'd agree with the post that says they are a little underpowered for fighting a strong wind & seas but we tend to sail when there is wind. Ideally a 14hp would be better & yes I'd go with the Kubota based Beta or Nanni if you want to buy new.They dont weigh any more than your YSB8. There is the YSM12 for used option with more power which will fit your mounts I'm pretty sure but you can check with the dealer.

[SailingFan]

My plan is to pull the head first, but if all looks ok with that, the piston looks fine, the pushrod is recovered from the oilpan (it fell in when my brother in law lifted then dropped it in its recess), is it likely that an engine this old won't need internal repairs? Ie., if the head is ok and the spring is the only apparent problem after checking and reseating the valves, would it be wise to just button it back up with the new spring pair installed and move forward, or am I better served to pull the entire block and do a rebuild just for sake of having a "new" engine in there from the reliability standpoint?

I am still thinking a repower will cost more than it is worth in this boat (unless I stumble over a good deal someplace).

[Compass790]

No way of knowing if it needs repairs without checking. If it was maintained well & hasnt done too many hours it could be fine. I would be tempted to just check the piston & big end & if ok button it up again if you are on a budget. Yes repowering with a new engine is expensive & you'll never get it back with the resale. If you need a new piston PM me as now you have a YSB8 rather than a YSE I can help.

[SailingFan]

Thanks, Compass, I will check it and see what is going on. Maybe will get it pulled off today, in fact... Going to be grinding the last of the bottom paint remnants off today (sticks damn well in most places for ablative paint) because I want to use some hard epoxy paint to assist with minimizing future water intrusion into this spidercracked gelcoat, and I will then put ablative on top of the hard epoxy paint (which is from the same company, but is more useful on fresh water, supposedly). I will be moored in brackish to fresh water, but want to go to coastal areas as well, which is what makes the St John's River so nice. It even connects to the ICW and directly to the Atlantic, so we have lots of destination options for this coastal boat.

I know this is off topic, but take a look at these..



And then there is this...

A few of those...

All these seem cosmetic, and look like the gelcoat is just popping off here and there where water got in but where the gelcoat was cracked all to heck. The entire underwater surface is cracked, however, so it seems unlikely that it will get better.

I do wonder how "clean" the hull has to be of this soft paint before ready for hard. I have heard the entire hull has to be to gelcoat before painting, but this stuff is no longer chipping off, it is adhered as tightly as the dollar bill to my late father's wallet. Sharpened scrapers now do not touch it, and I am afraid to hit it much more with grinders because of the gelcoat issue.

Ideas?

[Compass790]

There is chemical peels that I've heard work well removing paint, dont know the name but Lowes or whatever hardware place might be able to tell you. Vinylester epoxy works well as an osmosis barrier coat. Search the forums or google for this topic

[Sketchy Pete]

Basically replace all the valve springs and for the cost of a couple of valves I'd be replacing them also. Chances are if you repair the top the bottom will go no long after as is usually the case with cars and bikes. To do it on the cheap and have it fail because you didn't replace a part for a few extra dollars doesn't seem to make sense to me. As you know all too well it will fail when you most need the motor. If you can't afford to do it properly now how will you afford to fix again when more damage has been done later. Do it once and do it properly.. Just my 2 bobs worth, good luck