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Old 25-01-2010, 06:51   #1
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Yet Another Perkins 4-108 Overheating

Hello all I wanted to start this thread because there could be mix ups between my problems and the thread I was useing.

I will keep it up to date on what I find and what I do to fix it.

I will also ask to have the post on the other tread moved to here.



Dutch

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Originally Posted by johnar View Post
I am having a very bad day, went out last night for a short sail and over night fishing trip with a friend. Everything went fine until after I went to bed and my friend ask my wife if we could return because he foregot his meds. well she started the motor and it ran about 15 min then over heated, So I get out of bed and see that the water tank">fresh water tank was dry. I added water and started the motor at this time it was very hard to start (first time ever) after it did start there was alot of smoke coming out the back I ran the motor about 30 min and it over heated yet again and out of water again, I have not check the oil yet to see if there is water in it.

My first thought is head gasket and I really hope that is all, this motor has never smoked at all but has for the last 3 years run hot if you took it over 1,600 rpm so this is why I think it is a head gasket.

The bad part about this is I have a bad back and dread taking it apart but something that must be done.

At first I thought it was steam coming out the back but after I got to the dock I got a better look and it is white smoke and a small slick in the water behind the boat.

I recall seeing a gasket kit or rebuild kit for around $700 but not sure. I do not mind putting $3,000 into the motor due to the low cost I have in the boat but on the other hand I have so little in the boat would I be better off selling the boat and get another?

Dutch
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Originally Posted by btrayfors View Post
Dutch,

You didn't say if this was a Perkins 4-108 but I assume it is since this is a Perkins thread.

First, the white smoke indicates water content, the black is usually unburned fuel.

You may be right re: the head gasket, but you may well have other problems. Not being able to run the engine over 1600 RPM would indicate some serious problems which should be thoroughly investigated. Cruising RPM for this engine is about 2200-2500 RPM.

You said you have a bad back, but you're willing to invest a bit. The 4-108 is a great, reliable engine and is very well known. I'd find an experienced Perkins diesel mechanic and have him go over the engine with you, identifying problems and potential problem points, then giving you an estimate of what it would cost to put the engine right. This is a case where some professional hands-on could save you tons of grief over time and, potentially, $$$$ if you don't get it right.

And, hey, the main thing is you don't want to risk further back problems...that could put your sailing days to an end.

Bill
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnar View Post
Thank you all for the advice but I am sure the problem is deeper than just flow, I am calling in a diesel mechanic.

But to answer your question Yes I have very good flow coming out the raw and the cap was replaced a few months ago, another thing that is new; if I leave the cap off and start the motor it will push the water out that means I have compression in the cooling system.

What my plan is to call a diesel mechanic and have them check it get a quote and go from there, I do know I will not pay over $3,000 to fix this one because I know I can get a rebuilt for just alittle more just have to install myself.

Dutch
Quote:
Originally Posted by btrayfors View Post
Most likely. And, you really DO want to pay someone to have a good look...not a freebie. It's well worth it. Just be sure you get a good recommendation for a qualified diesel mechanic.

Re: fresh water flow, on a 4-108 fresh water pump, there are TWO gaskets between the pump and the engine block, with a thin metal plate between the gaskets. THESE GASKETS ARE NOT IDENTICAL. A shade-tree mechanic in the BVI once installed a new water pump for me and put identical gaskets on. That gave me absolute fits for a couple of years (overheating) until I flew my own trusted diesel mechanic down to have a look. Took him less than an hour to find three problems, including the wrong gasket. Well worth it, 'cuz in a couple of hours the engine was purring along like new and we could go sailing for a couple of days :-)

Bill
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Originally Posted by johnar View Post
Tom yes I have normal flow coming out the exhaust,

Dutch
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Old 26-01-2010, 12:05   #2
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Hello All,

Well first I must say its not all that easy to get a few of the parts off an old motor. lol


I do have the head off now and it took about 6 hours not counting the 5 hours tryin to get the header tank off.

It was very easy to see what the problem was as soon as i seen the gasket.

Other things I found wrong while doing the work,

Only one motor mount holding the motor in place, a number of oil leaks that could have been fixed so easy if I knew of them.

Now the biggy I need a Header Tank the one I have is rotted out so bad they did not have a thermastat in it and they used something like JB Weld to fix all the rot around where it would go. It was clear to see they jerry rigged the tank back on when it should have been fixed/replaced.

Anyone know where I can get a Header Tank???????

oh found the gasket kit for $90 and a machine shop to mill the head for $29 and test it for $40.


Dutch
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Old 26-01-2010, 15:57   #3
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The more I think about the design of the Header Tank it is really stupid, running the bolts down through the tank with the thermostat right under it.

To me it would have been much better with a gooseneck over the thermostat just like on a car then you could locate the tank anyplace.

I called Perkins and they nolonger make/sell the tanks


Dutch
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Old 26-01-2010, 17:56   #4
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Hello Dutch,
Check this outfit Inca Molded Products | Custom Rotational Plastic Molding
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Old 26-01-2010, 19:36   #5
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4.108 Perkins/Westerbeke Cold Water Header Tank
On ebay
My 4-107 has the same tank.
$200 buy it now price
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Old 26-01-2010, 19:56   #6
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thank you both very much,

pdxsailordiver, I seen that and the one thing I seen different than mine was the cap is at the other end, I could not see the back of the tank to tell if it has the hose outlet like mine either.

Could you look at this link and tell me if yours is the same????

http://islander36.org/perkins/4-108parts.pdf If you look on page 38 you will see it and the part number is

NA000541


Dutch
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Old 26-01-2010, 20:12   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnar View Post
thank you both very much,

pdxsailordiver, I seen that and the one thing I seen different than mine was the cap is at the other end, I could not see the back of the tank to tell if it has the hose outlet like mine either.

Could you look at this link and tell me if yours is the same????

http://islander36.org/perkins/4-108parts.pdf If you look on page 38 you will see it and the part number is NA000541 Dutch
It looks a bit different but may mount up the same. You can contact the seller to see how it mounts up. He may have more pictures or can send/take some more.

4.108 Perkins/Westerbeke Cold Water Header Tank : eBay Motors (item 190246830177 end time Feb-15-10 16:58:10 PST)
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Old 26-01-2010, 20:17   #8
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4-108 tank

Looking at what you sent me our tanks are different . My tank is just like the one on ebay. It dose have an outlet on the back that goes to the exhaust manifold(maybe 2 " long hose).
There is a person in Spokane WA, that sells stuff on E bay that seams to have lots of old Perkins parts.
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