Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 05-05-2015, 03:24   #31
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,750
Re: Yanmar Starter Problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
I would suggest sending out an oil sample for analysis. If there has been recurrent hydrolocking, that should have created excess water in the oil, and even if you can't see it in hand, the analysis would confirm or eliminate that question, I'd expect.
Cheaper and simpler than tearing apart the exhaust and engine, looking for tiny zebras.
Excellent idea; thanks.
__________________

__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2015, 03:27   #32
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,750
Re: Yanmar Starter Problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
If your ring gear is OK, then you might simply be having a very common Yanmar problem caused by running starter engagement power through the ignition switch. This only requires rewiring that power through a solenoid, so the starter gets full power. The symptoms of this are that the starter will just click when you hit start, not engaging the starter; often it will "click, click, click, and then finally catch.
OK, this is also a useful reminder. Definitely worth trying. I think I have some spare relays on board and this is not a complicated wiring job. Would be right to eliminate right off.

Thanks.
__________________

__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2015, 03:28   #33
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,750
Re: Yanmar Starter Problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I believe the gears on the starter are case hardened, filing will get through this hardening and the fix won't last long at all, yes the pinion can be replaced.
I'd have current starter re-built, and kept as a spare, I'd buy a new starter and as suggested use the ignition switch to trigger a solenoid, that triggers the starter solenoid.
I have the click, click, start issue myself, and need to do that, it is pretty common
Thanks, I needed that information. So no filing.
__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2015, 03:59   #34
Moderator
 
noelex 77's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Living on dirt waiting for our new yacht to be built.
Boat: Half built Bestevaer.
Posts: 10,619
Re: Yanmar Starter Problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
I would suggest sending out an oil sample for analysis. If there has been recurrent hydrolocking, that should have created excess water in the oil, and even if you can't see it in hand, the analysis would confirm or eliminate that question, I'd expect.
Oil analysis would show the problem very early, although careful inspection of the elbow, perhaps with penetrating dye, will reveal the issue as long as you look for it.

Most of the time my engine with this problem started normally. When the failure to start occurred the solenoid could be heard engaging and the engine could be heard to start to turn over for a fraction second before nothing.

The starter would turn to the engine until the relevant cylinder reached close to TDC. A similar behaviour should provide a valuable clue. I agree electrical problems are a far more likely cause of starting problems and these should be explored first.

Unfortunately if you are monitoring the voltage at the engine it will drop quite low. When the starter is jammed it presents a dead short. So the symptoms are very similar to simple electrical problem. In addition the large current is likely to cause other problems. In my case it blew the large negative solenoid and of course the starter can be damaged. These multiple issues created by the hydrolock make a differential diagnosis tough.

In my case it was only after I had replaced the entire engine electrical starting system that the truth was discovered. Salt water will damage the engine so early detection is preferable (I later replaced the whole engine). Hopefully someone else can learn from my mistakes.


The starter at this point is in a dead short so unfortunatly so if you are monitoring the voltage at the engine it will drop quite low. In addition there was a large negative solenoid which blew due to the large current. Both these observatuons were very suggestive of an electrical problem. It was only after replacing all the electrical
__________________
noelex 77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2015, 04:19   #35
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Sydney
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 1,101
Re: Yanmar Starter Problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Yes, they are laminate, with the matrix made out of carbon fiber and vectran, with taffeta on both sides. The difference is just incredible. We got to Guernsey in under 12 hours -- 110 miles. That's the fastest Channel crossing I've ever done by far, and that's despite fighting a foul tide in the Needles Channel, and then fighting 4.6 knots of foul tide in the Little Russel. But it was not just the speed, but the lack of heel -- in 25 knots of wind on a beam reach, only 20 degrees or less of heel. Furthermore, my old main was doing much more pulling than it usually does, without any speed bubble -- the air flowing smoothly from jib to main for the first time. I have done fast crossings with my old sails, but huge drag went with all the power, meaning lots of heel and a feeling of lots of force and power which is hard to control. With the new sail, it's like flying lightly with less heel, less sheet loads, far less stress in general. Maybe the sea state played a role, though; it was rather smooth for that much wind.
i am waiting for my new carbon fiber gennaker. Sailmakers reckons it will redefine my sailing below 10 kn wind.

Bit sceptical. Have no experience with laminate sails. Although i can see them on monos. Appears to give them extra ease and speed, as you mentioned.
__________________
arsenelupiga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2015, 04:43   #36
Moderator
 
noelex 77's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Living on dirt waiting for our new yacht to be built.
Boat: Half built Bestevaer.
Posts: 10,619
Re: Yanmar Starter Problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
OK, thanks. How does a bad exhaust elbow lead to water in the cylinders? I can't quite imagine how this works. From a bad installation, I understand.
This diagram shows the construction of a typical exhaust elbow. The cooling water is contained in jacket that extends all the way up to exhaust manifold. An internal leak where the cross is shown will potentially let some water into the cylinders via an open exhaust valve.

The plumbing for a turbo engine is more complicated. In addition it sounds like you have a "high rise" exhaust elbow. Most high rise exhaust elbows have cooling water right up to the engine, so the problems are the same, others inject the water well below the engine. With this later design an internal leak cannot allow water into the engine but the un-cooled pipe has to be covered in thick fibreglass cloth to reduce the burn and fire hazard.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	80
Size:	394.7 KB
ID:	101439  
__________________
noelex 77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2015, 17:11   #37
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: virginia
Boat: islandpacket
Posts: 1,835
Re: Yanmar Starter Problems

I had no leaks or cracks in my exhaust elbow but still hydrolocked my yanmar because I cranked it to much and the exhaust water backed up through the exaust and flooded my engine and locked it right up because with no exhaust gas it had nothing to push the water out the lift muffler. I loosened the injectors and cranked till the water squirted out. Yours may be different.

Sent from my SM-G860P using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
That derelict boat was another dream for somebody else, don't let it be your nightmare and a waste of your life.
Badsanta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2015, 07:53   #38
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,750
Re: Yanmar Starter Problems

Update. We're in the Baltic now on the way to Bornholm. The weather is gorgeous and we're sailing on a broad reach in 20 to 25 knots - magic. We had one tough day in the middle of the North Sea with an F9 which lasted about 24 hours. Normally the sea state produced by an F9 is not really a problem in this boat, but the North Sea is shallow. To make a long story short, we experienced a broach and knockdown when a large wave broke right on our quarter - first time this has ever happened to me in a keelboat. Everyone was tethered to the boat, so we lost no one overboard, and there isn't too much damage besides a destroyed computer and monitor and of course our pride. It took quite a long time to clean up the carnage in the cabin, of course. It looked as if a bomb had been set off below. Thank God all the tanks, batteries, etc. in this vessel are securely strapped and bolted down.

As to the starter -- we took it apart yet again before the Dover Straits and verified that the pinion is actually not boogered up -- I must have hallucinated that. I wired in a relay for it. We have had no further trouble. Must have been electrical after all



Sent from my SGP521 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
"Parce que je suis heureux en mer, et peut-Ítre pour sauver mon ame. . . "
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2015, 09:09   #39
Registered User
 
Terra Nova's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Marina del Rey, California
Boat: Freya 39 cutter- Terra Nova
Posts: 3,649
Re: Yanmar Starter Problems

That's pretty common with Yanmars.
__________________

__________________
1st rule of yachting: When a collision is unavoidable, aim for something cheap.
"whatever spare parts you bring, you'll never need"--goboatingnow
"Id rather drown than have computers take over my life."--d design
Terra Nova is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
yanmar

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Yanmar Starter Is Intermittent Tropic Cat Engines and Propulsion Systems 58 03-07-2014 16:54
Vetus M3 Diesel motor starter problems themannsindorse Engines and Propulsion Systems 0 27-06-2013 04:52
Starter Problems sailorboy1 Engines and Propulsion Systems 15 15-07-2011 07:53
Lehman Starter Problems Capt. Rich Engines and Propulsion Systems 9 08-04-2011 19:39
A Yanmar Starter Thread Charlie Engines and Propulsion Systems 2 28-03-2007 20:22



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:06.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.