Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 20-02-2010, 12:52   #331
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Boat: Little Harbor Whisperjet 40
Posts: 334
Dockhead;
I have about 20,000. Nm on two Yanmar 420 hp engines. They are mechanical engines and can only run clean at close to rated load and temp.

When they are cold they smoke, from day one. Run them hard and long, no smoke. So for ten years they have been perfect.

I add some biodiesel too but only 1 or 2 %, never more than 5% and for winter storage I don't add any.

The most common cause of failure in any brand diesel is neglect.

For the sailor that uses 3 gallons of fuel a season, a diesel is a total waste.
__________________

__________________
Highlander40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2010, 09:49   #332
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 363
The engine issues are all apparently now solved..... the installation of the new Yanmar 4JH4-TE engine is complete and we conducted final sea trials yesterday. She runs great.

The process was not painless. The original estimate for the job was around $14,800.... the final bill was well over $17,500.

Lots went wrong. The transmission that came with the engine did not fit. The coupling on the prop shaft did not fit when the transmission was changed. At no point did anyone measure the engine space and compare that to the dimensions of the new engine package nor did anyone check into coupling specs before attempting to connect things.

Basically.... the Yanmar distributor says the dealer is supposed to ensure that all measurements are done and the new engine package ordered has all the correct parts such as transmission and couplings.... the dealer says the distributor was supposed to do all that. All I know is I made sure everyone knew up front exactly what was coming out of the boat, including serial numbers and that I wanted a new package that would fit the same footprint. That was apparently akin to putting together a shuttle launch in complexity.

So we had tons of extra time billed for swapping transmissions, fighting alignment issues and changing couplings and such.

The huge cost overruns stink. Had I known a repower would have cost this much more I doubt I would have gone this route and probably would have rebuilt the old engine. Still.... it is all over now and that is something.

Here is what I have learned and I hope others will learn from this as well:

1. Being a Yanmar dealer does not mean said dealer knows anything about Yanmar engines nor does it mean they are qualified to work on yours. Yanmar distributors will sign up anyone as a dealer. All that is required is a pulse.

2. Yanmar distributors are not the fountains of knowledge you would expect. In fact, they probably know less than you do or less than you will if you spend several hours reading about your engine.

3. NEVER spend a single dollar on new engine parts until extensive testing has PROVEN what is wrong with your engine. If the tech you are working with does not have the exact tools to conduct compression tests, leak down tests and exhaust back pressure tests.... you are working with an amateur and you need a new tech.

4. Yanmar has among the worst customer support on the planet. They apparently everything to their distributors and they do little to nothing to ensure that the distributor is held to any standard. So you may get excellent service your may get run through the wringer.... either way Yanmar itself has nothing to do with it.


With 20/20 hindsight..... back when this nightmare began in January I should have gone back to the marina at Ortega and settled in to completely rebuild my old engine myself. I should have torn the thing apart, jobbed out having the head, turbo, injection pump and transmission rebuilt and replaced the pistons and rings while honing the cylinder walls myself. While this would have been a huge job.... I bet I would have been done much faster than 2 full months and I would have spent FAR less.

So that is what I learned.



Terry
__________________

__________________
Tspringer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2010, 10:07   #333
Registered User
 
sigmasailor's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Netherlands, Holland
Boat: Sold Sigma 33 OOD some time ago, will be chartering in Turkey really soon
Posts: 358
At least you've got a brand new engine that will give you years of trouble free service (provided it was installed correctly). Hope you have a good warranty with the job done, not just the engine.

I would personally add point 5, 6 and 7:

5) Let mechanics swap parts on a no cure no pay contract. If they f**k up you don't have to pay for their incompetence

6) For bigger jobs always ask for a fixed lump sum contract; again, if the mechanic scr*ws up it is their mistake and they have to correct it. You might even ask for an agreed time frame and ask for a penalty when they take too long. I agree, the intial quote will be higher, at least you will know what you pay in the end in advance.

7) Do not pay any money for a job without proper results; put this in a contract up front.

Anyway, your troubles are over, the weather is improving, time to forget and enjoy.

Happy sailing.

Eric
__________________
Sailors do it with the wind...
sigmasailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2010, 10:23   #334
Registered User
 
Fishman_Tx's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beeville, Tx.
Boat: 1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch "Lady Catherine II", 1973 Bristol 34 - "Our Baby"(RIP), Catalina 22
Posts: 876
Images: 12
Great to hear! Hopefully, it didn't completely deplete the cruising kitty.....
__________________
Fish
"Behind every great man there is a woman, rolling her eyes."
But not for long! Now she's gone!
and peace and tranquility reign forever!
1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch
Fishman_Tx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2010, 10:34   #335
Senior Cruiser
 
Captain Bill's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On the boat
Boat: Endeavourcat Sailcat 44
Posts: 2,313
Terry, I'm glad to hear your back in business, sorry to hear it cost you so much. I agree that the Yanmar support system in the US is severely broken.

I have found that trouble shooting in general is a lost art, especially among the younger generation. I learned it in my youth working in a TV repair shop in high school and working on my own cars. Now nobody repairs TV's or computer or even cars at the component level. Same goes for boats. Apparently all that's left are parts swappers. If you manage to find a mechanic that can trouble shoot keep him around. I used to hire technical people during the last 20 years of my working life and have seen the decrease in these skills first hand. I believe a good trouble shooter has to be able to think in a linear methodical way to get to the source of the problem. I find that the younger generation cannot do this well. They seem to think in a manner that resembles the hyperlinked structure of the internet.

My 2 cents, change welcome.
__________________
Captain Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2010, 10:55   #336
sitting on the dock of the bay

Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,513
Images: 6
Send a message via Yahoo to gonesail
speaking of ortega .. I do remember seeing your boat with the cooler platform on the stern .. nice. the weather has finally improved here and you could have fixed your engine. sorry for the bad experience and thanks for the warnings
__________________
sometimes the things that may or may not be true are the things a man needs to believe in the most.
gonesail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2010, 11:10   #337
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,033
" the Yanmar distributor says the dealer is supposed to ensure that all measurements are done and the new engine package ordered has all the correct parts such as transmission and couplings.... the dealer says the distributor was supposed to do all that. "
I'd CC them both a letter, letting them know they can see how well that flies in small claims court, or they can reimburse you for the extra costs NOW. Then in 30 days, file in small claims court, which is usually between $25 and $300 depending on your state and county laws. Since they are both businesses, normally they have to pay an attorney by the hour to represent them--which is good incentive to just pay you instead. Especially since their attorney will say something like "Well, the court is just going to make both us us pay him."

No need to let yourself take the rap on this one, Terry. These guys screwed up, and the mention of small claims court is usually very good about fixing that.
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2010, 11:30   #338
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Nevada City. CA
Boat: Sceptre 41
Posts: 3,745
Images: 9
Terry:

Glad to see you have a new engine. Sorry about the dent in your wallet. I followed this thread with lots of interest. I am sorry we had to learn off of your back but I will keep this in mind shuld I have problems.
__________________
Fair Winds,

Charlie

Between us there was, as I have already said somewhere, the bond of the sea. Besides holding our hearts together through long periods of separation, it had the effect of making us tolerant of each other's yarns -- and even convictions. Heart of Darkness
Joseph Conrad
Charlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2010, 12:24   #339
Registered User
 
Chuteman's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Charleston, SC USA
Posts: 491
Terry:
Thanks for sharing all the blood, sweat, tears and $$$

Fair Winds going forward and all the BEST to You and Your family
__________________
Chuteman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2010, 14:19   #340
Registered User
 
Stillraining's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Puget Sound
Boat: Irwin 41 CC Ketch
Posts: 2,876
Not knowing squat about Yanmars I stayed out of this and most other threads on them as well..Reading all this is aggravating for sure.

Sorry it was such an ordeal...I know that feeling well.
__________________
"Go simple, go large!".

Relationships are everything to me...everything else in life is just a tool to enhance them.
Stillraining is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2010, 14:57   #341
Registered User
 
Solitude's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: West Coast, BC , Canada
Boat: Cascade
Posts: 595
Going through my own Yanmar issues on my 1GM10 I understand your situation. I have taken the do it yourself approach (on a simpler engine). I have not really had any good advice from Yanmar dealers here and relied on my judgement and the advice of the gang on this site.

I needed to replace the head so this is a buy and swap situation, but I feel I would have spent a few hundred dollars in testing with out the help of this site.

One final gripe about Yanmar is that the parts I am going to buy were quoted at $1640 in Canada and $760 in the states! The Canadian dollar is at 96cents to the American and there is no duty on these items at the border.! I am saving close to $1,000. Crazy!
__________________
Go outside and PLAY!
Solitude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2010, 19:52   #342
Eternal Member
 
Chief Engineer's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: North of Baltimore
Boat: Ericson 27 & 18' Herrmann Catboat
Posts: 3,798
Yikes!!!!!

Your story is precisely the reason I left a Yard in Baltimore......I got tired of people "collaring" ME on MY boat while waving a bill in my face. I had no control over the extreme (at times) markups on my labor/time. I got tired of the "add-ons" the parts weenies put on the bills for "shop materials etc etc etc.)

There are a couple others on this board that know that Yanmar has a jig for engine installation...it recreates the footprint as well as the offset/angle for the output coupling. If I am installing a venerable A-4 in a boat...I build my own jig.

When I quote a job...it is always a "not to exceed price".....if you really want to pi$$ off an owner....go back to him/her with a line like...UHHHH I need mo' money to finish the job.......

TSpringer......your travails have benefitted the yachtng world....now we are looking forward to your visits to exotic ports.
__________________
Chief Engineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2010, 06:17   #343
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Endeavour 42CC
Posts: 1,182
yanmar needs to know how bad their distribution/dealer network is...

Yanmar America Corporation - Contact Yanmar

Give em an ear full

no matter how good the yanmar engine rep is, I won't be installing a yanmar when my perkins gives up.
__________________
gettinthere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2010, 06:34   #344
sitting on the dock of the bay

Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,513
Images: 6
Send a message via Yahoo to gonesail
yanmar also has accurate documents on their website which give all metric dimensions of their engines. i would think this would be enough to see if it will fit along with a jig. measure 10 times .. cut once.
__________________
sometimes the things that may or may not be true are the things a man needs to believe in the most.
gonesail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2010, 18:06   #345
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 363
I have made the effort to contact Yanmar directly twice. Both times I sent a very detailed message. I have heard exactly nothing back. Nada.

I really hope this engine gives great service but I cannot see myself ever going with another Yanmar. Regardless of how great the engine itself may be, the companies support network and services are a disaster. You are rolling the dice and nobody at headquarters cares.



Terry
__________________

__________________
Tspringer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
yanmar

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Blue-Smoking Yanmar wsvoboda Engines and Propulsion Systems 26 08-03-2010 13:21
What Oil for Yanmar (SD 20) Saildrive ? svstrider Engines and Propulsion Systems 7 23-01-2010 06:39
Yanmar Front Main Oil Seal Slings Oil quartersplash Engines and Propulsion Systems 1 06-08-2009 11:26
Yanmar started smoking SilentOption Engines and Propulsion Systems 26 27-08-2008 13:51



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:47.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.