Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-02-2010, 15:31   #256
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by bstreep View Post
I can't imagine not putting a Yanmar back in:

1) They ARE reliable engines. At 4000 hours, that's about 250,000 miles in an automobile installation - and you are just now having a problem with it.

2) If you repower with the same engine, you have lots of spares - or you can just buy a rebuild.
I second this...Yanmar's are generally very good engines and would probably be my first choice if when I need to repower. You have not yet found the fault with your Yanmar yet, and I do understand your frustration, and it is warranted. The amount of attention this post has received, with no one with the right answer, at least not known as of yet, not even from professionals, is seemingly unusual. Baffled....is everyone who has posted help here!!! Good post, I like challenges..
__________________

__________________
Gnitfar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2010, 15:52   #257
Sponsoring Vendor
 
Tellie's Avatar

Community Sponsor

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hollywood, Fl.
Boat: FP Athena 38' Poerava
Posts: 3,046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnitfar View Post
I second this...Yanmar's are generally very good engines and would probably be my first choice if when I need to repower. You have not yet found the fault with your Yanmar yet, and I do understand your frustration, and it is warranted. The amount of attention this post has received, with no one with the right answer, at least not known as of yet, not even from professionals, is seemingly unusual. Baffled....is everyone who has posted help here!!! Good post, I like challenges..

I third this as well. B makes a good point on lots of spares.
This is something obvious that is being constantly over looked.
Tellie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2010, 16:17   #258
Senior Cruiser
 
bstreep's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: San Antonio, TX/Port Aransas, TX
Boat: 1990 Macintosh 47, "Merlin"
Posts: 2,274
We have pretty much the same engine (75hp), and I'd definitely rebuild/repower with the same.
__________________
Bill Streep
San Antonio/Port Aransas, TX
bstreep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2010, 16:32   #259
Registered User
 
ka4wja's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Florida
Boat: Catalina 470
Posts: 2,033
Yanmar Service in Palm Beach, etc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tspringer View Post
So the hunt for a mechanic who can do all the required tests begins.
In addition to the companies I posted about earlier....
Quote:
American Marine Tech Inc. in Palm Beach Gardens, 561-691-3388
DieselMax in Lantana, FL 561-436-5627
JAS Marine in Lake Park 561-844-3224
I did get in touch with my family friend, Gregg Burdick, owner of Stuart Yacht (772-286-9800), and he said if you have no luck in Palm Beach / Lake Worth area, give them a call, and he'll try to put you in touch with someone down there that should be able to figure out the problem....



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tspringer View Post
If I end up having to repower it will not be with a Yanmar unless I can work a deal to get some credit for the dang turbo I bought.
And, I'm with the others here....I can't think of a better engine for your boat than a Yanmar.....

Just my thoughts...
Good luck....

John
__________________
ka4wja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2010, 16:40   #260
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 48
4000 hrs does not sound like a lot to me most of the old school motors go an easy 10,000
__________________
promax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2010, 17:34   #261
Registered User
 
Laidback's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by bstreep View Post
We have pretty much the same engine (75hp), and I'd definitely rebuild/repower with the same.
Hi there,
Until we know what that the engine is really KAPUT - no ways is there a reason to repower. The most expensive repair would be a rebore with new pistons, rings etc - mainly labour cost. 4,000 hrs actually equates to around 140k miles in a road vehicle.
By the way I used to skipper a Macintosh 47 - great boat ! and it could get a move on - raced one in the South China Sea Race Series from Hong Kong to San Fernando in the Philippines, won our class. Then cruised it into the Visayans then back to Hong Kong. That boat still has the same engine a
Yanmar 4JH2 HTE.
__________________
Laidback is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2010, 17:43   #262
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 363
I have the owner of JAS Marine coming out to the boat in the morning to do the compression testing and start digging into this. He comes highly recommended.

Palm Beach beats the heck out of Mayport in February regardless!

The help and empathy I have gotten here has been jaw dropping. I really appreciate it!


Terry
__________________
Tspringer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2010, 18:10   #263
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,352
hmmm...i would say 4000 hours is more like 130,000 car miles..... unless your AVERAGE car speed is 62.5 MPH! A good diesel shouldnt need any work prior to 4000 hours. OTOH my experience with 3 yanmars is that two of them failed prior to 2600 hours. The other was more trouble with minor issues than any perkins, volvo , bukh or mercedes I had. having said that... there are a lot of satisfied users, hopefully you wont end up repowering. One thing to be said about repowering with Yanmar is it could be easy if the new engine hasnt changed from your configuration.
__________________
Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2010, 18:15   #264
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pickering Ontario
Boat: 1995 hunter 430
Posts: 329
I wont be able to sleep tonight.....I really hope you have a great day
__________________
Navicula is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2010, 18:37   #265
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 48
I have been following this thread and it has been painful I do hope tommorow will bring some direction Best of luck
__________________
promax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2010, 20:02   #266
cruiser

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tampa to New York
Boat: Morgan 33 OutIsland, Magic and 33' offshore scott design "Cutting Edge"
Posts: 1,594
There's also a park directly ashore on west side. Just a place to dinghy to and walk around some.
__________________
forsailbyowner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2010, 19:14   #267
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 363
John Straus from JAS Marine came out to the boat this morning and we ran through some test. He is a super nice guy and clearly very knowledgably. He DID own the compression testing tools!

First thing, we changed the oil. On Wendsday night while on passage from Jacksonville we motorsailed for about 8 hours. Winds were very light and a northeast swell was running. We were broad reaching and motorsailing at 1500rpm moved the apparent wind back enough to drive the main such that the rolling ceased and everyone could sleep. Anyway, when we checked the oil we found PLENTY of fuel dilution. Before I left Jacksonville I changed the oil again and noted that the oil level was ” below the full level on the dipstick. When we checked it this morning it was almost 2” over the full level and clearly badly fuel diluted.

John says that the only way this could be happening on this level is a bad fuel injection pump. I tend to agree. We estimated that there was over 3 quarts of fuel in the oil in less than 10 hours of run time.

After changing the oil we ran the engine and cracked each injector. We ran the engine at 1800rpm and began at the front cylinder. The rpm’s dropped a noticeable amount but on the next 3 cylinders the amount of rpm drop when each injector was cracked was significantly more. John immediately said we had bad compression on #1.

We did this same test in Jacksonville, but the guy from Mobile Marine Consulting did the test with the engine at 1,000rpm and the amount of rpm drop was not as clearly noticeable.

Next, we did a compression test on all 4 cylinders. The #1 suspect cylinder tested at 180-190psi. The other 3 cylinders all tested at 425-450psi.

We next looked at the valve gear and checked valve clearances, all were fine. So John tried rotating each valve and spring a bit for the #1 cylinder and we re-tested compression. This was done hoping that perhaps the compression issue was due to carbon being stuck on the valve or seat and perhaps rotating the valve would break it loose. We tried this 3 times and it made no difference.

Next we poured about 2 ounces of 40 weight engine oil into the bad cylinder and did the compression test again. The compression immediately jumped to 425psi.

We put it all back together and ran the engine. We tested cracking each injector one by one again and had the exact same results. The #1 cylinder is clearly down on compression.

Given that the compression jumped up when lots of oil was poured into the cylinder, the issue is not valves or top end. It is rings. Probably a cracked ring. As soon as combustion began again in the cylinder and the oil we poured in was burned or pushed out of the cylinder we again had reduced compression.

So the engine has 2 big problems: a bad injection pump AND bad compression on the #1 cylinder. The problem was never the turbo.

John is putting together some numbers on costs to have the injection pump rebuilt and to pull the engine apart and replace the #1 piston and liner with new items. He is going to get back to me with a firm quote but we know this is going to run over $3,500 including all the labor and parts.

I am really pretty pissed about being sold a turbo. Without doing a compression test, back pressure test or even correctly cracking the injectors as a poor mans compression test it was announced that I had to have a new turbo. When that did not fix the problem it was insisted that there was nothing wrong with the engine and the problem was the prop (oh, so why did I need a turbo again? ). When the prop turned out to not be the problem my phone calls were no longer returned.

I am weighing having the worked done to this engine against going with a full repower. I am going to speak with the Mastry guys and see if I can get some sort of credit for this turbo. That or I may try to return it completely.

Anyway, that’s where we are. It is MUCH nicer here in Palm Beach that it was in Jacksonville and there is tons more to do. I am sure we will be laid up here for at least 2-3 weeks getting this sorted.


Terry
__________________
Tspringer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2010, 19:36   #268
Registered User
 
ka4wja's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Florida
Boat: Catalina 470
Posts: 2,033
Thank goodness you've found a decent mechanic

Terry,
1) First off, I'm really glad that JAS Marine turned out to be a good recommendation, and it appears that he'd doing a good job so far....

2) Sorry you had the expense of buying a new turbo.....that shouldn't have happened.....
In my case, the only reason I sucpected the turbo (#4 on my list, right after faulty injector pump) was because of the description of "cleaning" the turbo......and it's possible that others jumped to that conclusion as well....

3) Not sure if the silver-lining here (the fact that we all learned a lot here...not the least of which is finding a competent professional isn't easy, but necessary......), makes this whole mess easier for you to swallow, but rest assured that many here HAVE learned a lot from this.....


Wishing you good luck and fair winds....

John
__________________
ka4wja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2010, 19:59   #269
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 48
I understand the purchase of the tubro is a hard pill to swallow but You are now making progress and in several weeks you will be cruising Focus on the postive
So glad you are on the up swing
__________________
promax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2010, 21:01   #270
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Happy to hear it's diagnosed!

Well, it wasn't a hole in a piston but might as well have been. Same results! I'm sure this has been a major learning curve for a lot of us and hope all goes well with the repairs.

I got 7000 hours on my last 1800cc diesel until it lost a timing belt pulley.

The cylinder repair may be done in the boat if there's room. The head assy. and oil pan will have to come off.

Wish you well !!!!
__________________

__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
yanmar

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Blue-Smoking Yanmar wsvoboda Engines and Propulsion Systems 26 08-03-2010 13:21
What Oil for Yanmar (SD 20) Saildrive ? svstrider Engines and Propulsion Systems 7 23-01-2010 06:39
Yanmar Front Main Oil Seal Slings Oil quartersplash Engines and Propulsion Systems 1 06-08-2009 11:26
Yanmar started smoking SilentOption Engines and Propulsion Systems 26 27-08-2008 13:51



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:38.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.