Yanmar Smoking and Making Oil

[never monday]

Originally Posted by Tspringer

I installed a Filter Boss Commander dual filter system and replaced all of the fuel related lines at that time (during all the big refit work).

Terry

are you running the electric pump during normal operation?

[Steve W]

Tom,

I live about 20 minutes from Ortega in Orange Park and will be working out of my home office this week. Call me anytime if you need a ride to the Jax airport or I can run you around for parts. Anytime Sunday (today) would be fine, too. 904-710-8394 cell.

Steve

[Gnitfar]

If after you do a compression test, you may find that not all cylinders are equal in compression, it's an old engine, but if it has enough compression in the lowest reading, to still fire, their is typically an allowance of 10% to 15% compression to be off from cylinder to cylinder, and still run ok.

[sigmasailor]

Apparently the fuel squirted into the engine is not burning prperly. It finds its way past rings (indication that it is not vaporised properly) and dilutes your oil and some of it simply exits with the exhaust gas.

I did not know about the feedback of boost pressure to the injection pump; your test results seem to indicate there is no difference with or without the line attached; maybe there is something stuck in the pump (at full open). I would have expected the engine to stop smoking since the injection pump sees no turbo boost and should reduce the amount of fuel.

Also, since your engine seems to smoke at lighter loads, the injectors are suspect.
Too much back pressure might also be the problem.

It's not hopeless; plenty of leads. Those measurement will point you in the right direction. In Dutch we say: 'Meten is weten' or 'measuring is knowing'; something your mechanic should have done last week.

[Tspringer]

NM.... No, I do not run the electric fuel pump on the Filter Boss during normal engine running. I ran it when bleeding the injectors initially but thats pretty much it. The Filter Boss manual says you can run it all the time but I see no reason for this. The electric pump make fuel polishing very easy... but no point in running it if the lift pump is working and your not bleeding.

Steve... THANK YOU for the kind offer and I may take you up on it. Our plan for today is to sit here at Morningstar, do some testing on the engine and watch movies, read and chill a bit. We need to motor back up to Ortega but I would prefer not too until after we have had a compression test. IF the compression is good and the issue is elsewhere I do not want to ruin the engine by running it under load for an extended period in this state. If the compression is bad.... to heck with it I will burn it up.



Terry

[Cheechako]

Boy do I feel your pain... this is something else......... Would the engine really "make oil" just from low compression? especially enough to be noticeable in the little time youve run it? ..I guess you either have to get the compression test done, or just pull the head... obviously you know something now: with unburned fuel on the water... something is not firing. A diesel doesnt have a spark plug... so it's darn near gotta be compression in at least one cylinder right? Turbos are hard on pistons, rings and head gaskets, pulling the head will tell you a lot: ring ridge in the cylinders, visual condition (one bad cylinder will be a different color in the combustion chamber), head gasket leak may be obvious etc. If head gasket is leaking between two cylinders you will be getting raw fuel pushed into a cylinder that isnt ready for it ....? Geez I hope you guys find this soon... I dont know how bad the Turbo arrangement is , but most engines I can have the head off in an hour or a little more...

[delmarrey]

Gawd! I hope it's not a hole in a piston. Get that compression test done and I think that will answer a lot of questions! (excessive fuel in exhaust, smoke, fuel in oil etc).

[shakey doug]

G' day Terry,

While you have the injectors out for the compression test check for extra copper sealing washers located at btm of the hole .

Cheers, Shakey.

[Tspringer]

I did not run the engine today, just don't see much point until we can get all the testing gear.

I checked the fuel return line at the engine fuel filter and at the tank, there do not appear to be any blockages. I will also check the return lines at each injector when they are removed again for compression testing.

If seems to me that if one of these small return lines was blocked the backed up pressure would cause a fuel leak. The hoses are only held onto the fittings at the injectors with a small clip, they would not withstand high pressure.

Perhaps the injection pump is bad or the injection timing is off but neither was removed or messed with since the engine last ran fine.



Terry

[never monday]

what was the condition of the oil in the IP?

[Tspringer]

Originally Posted by never monday

what was the condition of the oil in the IP?

I cannot tell.

The only 14mm oil line fitting attached to the pump is on the side of the pump immediately above where the fuel lift pump attaches. I removed with to try and get some oil from the pump but no oil ran out and none could be extracted. This connection appears to me to be an oil pressure feed line, not a drain line. As best I can tell the oil goes into the IP under pressure at this fitting and then drains out the front of the pump where the timing gear attaches and back into the sump basically leaving no way to capture any oil before it returns to the sump.



Terry

[forsailbyowner]

Wow I sure feel your pain. The people you've had working for you have been taking you for a ride. I wouldn't call them mechanics. The first thing I saw is you were not hitting properly on two cylinders. The first thing I would think of doing is a compression test, a diesel mechanic should have a compression tester, if you have a bad valve seat or rings are letting compression by this a cheap way to avoid throwing money away. Instead they "throw a dart" and you pay for injectors you may or may not have needed. I see you paying big bucks for a turbo. I didn't hear of any checking of clearances or any diagnosis that was done with calipers micrometers feeler guages or dial indicators. There are cut and dried methods for diagnosing and evaluating parts and problems without "let's buy one of these and see if this helps". If it turns out you have low compression I'd be a little upset at the "mechanics" that have been throwing the darts at your expense. After reading this thread I'd be wary of yanmar. If their own mechanics can't diagnose a problem what are they there for? I'd also send a link to Yanmar corporate so they can read this thread . It would sure seem to be an embarrasment to their local service center you've been dealing with, maybe they'd step in .

[Tspringer]

forsailbyowner...

Believe me I plan to be in touch with Yanmar corporate about the guys I was working with and I will clearly be sending them a link to this thread. I blame myself now but for them to make gross assumptions about the state of the engine without testing and throw parts at it as was done.... its not right.


Terry

[delmarrey]

Here ya go....................

Yanmar America Corporation - Contact Yanmar

[Tspringer]

We are going to try and get out of where we are today and motor back up river to the Ortega area where we can get back into a long term slip. Whatever is wrong, it seems unlikely that we are going anywhere anytime real soon. I will probably fly back to Atlanta tomorrow or Wednesday to get our car and drive it back down.

I have a different Yanmar tech lined up to take a look who CAN do a compression test, leakdown test and measure exhaust back pressure. We hope to have all of this done late this afternoon or worst case first thing in the morning.

I have of course been wracking my brain over this and trying to determine what direction to go. At this point.... I can think of the following possibilities:

- All of the added weight to the boat lowered the waterline length a couple of inches (though the waterline paint is still not underwater or even close) and this increased the lift required for the waterlift exhaust thus pushing back pressure over a critical point.

- Something is wrong with the fuel return somehow causing fuel to be pushed through the injectors and into the engine thus overfueling and causing all the smoke.

- The injection pump is bad pushing far too much fuel and leaking fuel into the oil.

- Something is clogging the exhaust somewhere thus increasing back pressure and negating the turbo boost.

- Compression is bad and the engine is toast.

Any other theories that I should add to the list.... above the last one.... please let me know. We have to get this fixed ASAP, being in limbo hell is killing us. If the engine is toast we need to know now so we can move forward. Being stuck and unable to make any plans or know what to do is the worst part.



Terry