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Old 04-02-2014, 21:10   #16
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Re: Yanmar 4JH4AE catastrophic breakdown experience

As a lawyer once said, "The only way to know, if you have a winning case, is to take it to court and win."
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Old 04-02-2014, 21:59   #17
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Re: Yanmar 4JH4AE catastrophic breakdown experience

A real good reason to warm your diesel up at least every other week if not every week when your not useing it to get anywhere!! A little heat and oil splashing about are good for diesels!! The little amount of diesel this uses is well worth the cost!! warming your engine can and will extend the life of your engine!! This is my experince from 50 yrs of useing, bilding, repairing diesels !!
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Old 05-02-2014, 04:49   #18
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Re: Yanmar 4JH4AE catastrophic breakdown experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by eisselhardt View Post
No, Seaworthy said "mechanical failure."
The Seaworthy policy excludes:
Quote:
any loss caused directly or indirectly by wear and tear, gradual deterioration, mechanical or
electrical breakdown, overheating, electrolysis, galvanic action, rot, mold or mildew,
corrosion, weathering, marring, scratching, denting, vermin, animals or marine life; however,
we will cover immediate consequential property damage resulting from any fire, explosion,
sinking, demasting, collision or stranding;
...
any cost of repair or replacement of a part which fails as a result of a defect in manufacture or
construction; however, we will cover consequential property damage that results from such
failure if not otherwise excluded;
Not sure if the damage beyond the vavle can be considered consequential. If so, it may be covered.
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Old 05-02-2014, 09:15   #19
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Re: Yanmar 4JH4AE catastrophic breakdown experience

Who did the 100 hour valve adjustment, please tell me it was a certified Yanmar shop, this would give an argument with Mach Boring to cover some costs.
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Old 05-02-2014, 09:30   #20
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Re: Yanmar 4JH4AE catastrophic breakdown experience

I'm pretty sure that Bayshore Marine in Annapolis (we're in Baltimore) did the prior maintenance.
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Old 05-02-2014, 09:43   #21
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Re: Yanmar 4JH4AE catastrophic breakdown experience

I would also push harder on the insurance company. They can try to claim that the valve failure was an uncovered mechanical failure -- although I think most companies would still cover it. But the subsequent cracking of the engine block was not a mechanical failure. The insurance claim should be for the repair of the block not the broken valve.

Imagine if the valve failure had stalled the engine and caused the boat to drift into a rock. The insurance company doesn't get to claim that the hole from the rock is not covered.
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Old 05-02-2014, 09:45   #22
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Re: Yanmar 4JH4AE catastrophic breakdown experience

Try the Boat US consumer protection resources... They rock at this stuff...

Numbers and email at the bottom of the linked page...

Boat Consumer's Guide - Consumer Protection Bureau - BoatUS
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Old 05-02-2014, 09:46   #23
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Re: Yanmar 4JH4AE catastrophic breakdown experience

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I would also push harder on the insurance company. The valve failure was a mechanical failure. The subsequent cracking of the engine block was not.

Imagine if the valve failure had stalled the engine and caused the boat to drift into a rock. The insurance company doesn't get to claim that the hole from the rock is not covered.
Nice idea, but this is not the insurance companies first rodeo, doesn't matter the failure, its not what the company covers, if like another OP stated he sucked up a bag or hit something that caused the failure then yes its cover, well the depreciated value that is unless you have replace with new clause.

I personally would be going more on the extended warranty avenue.
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Old 05-02-2014, 09:47   #24
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Re: Yanmar 4JH4AE catastrophic breakdown experience

Read your insurance policy and then decide if you think you are covered, if you have hull and machinery, new for old with no exclusions on the motor I would feel you have a strong case. a friend of mine had a total failure due to overheat, ins. co. said. pull it,out and we will check it out after a teardown, then replace it and we will advise if covered, was covered 100% including his own time to re and re..
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Old 07-02-2014, 12:21   #25
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Re: Yanmar 4JH4AE catastrophic breakdown experience

Here is my take from the Insurance Point of View. If we were all covered for wear and tear and mechanical failure, our rates would be 4 times what they are today. No, the average policy is not going to cover you for not winterizing your engine, that is a maintenance issue, just as many claims are denied for boats sinking because the owner didn't change hose clamps and one failed and sunk the boat.

This is why we always recommend boat owners keep excellent records, receipts and pictures. The same boat sinking from a failed hose clamp could have the claim denied because a product defect, but if the owner shows due diligence in maintaining with logs, receipts, pictures, and in the logs their observations of inspecting on regular intervals, they would probably pay the claim even though they don't have to. Why? Because if you take it to court, you would have a good chance at winning the case with that much documentation. The guy who has not touched his boat

This is also why having a good Insurance Agent is better than going direct to a company as the Agent knows you and will actually do a lot to fight for you with the company.

If it were me, I would first have the oil analyzed to help prove you have maintained the engine to their requirements. Put together all the maintenance receipts for the boat, including the maintenance log. And worst case, have the valve pulled and examined to determine if it failed due to a defect or maintenance or neglect.
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Old 07-02-2014, 13:28   #26
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Re: Yanmar 4JH4AE catastrophic breakdown experience

You would make an excellent employee for the Ins Industry, however, your logic flies in the face of the actual meaning of "insurance" it is not necessary to maintain the records you describe for insurance purposes, certainly not a waste of time or a bad idea, but if your insurance coverage depends on those records, change ins. coverage. One of the reasons for survey at reasonable intervals is to show the ins. co the potential risk in a renewal and quote rates or demands for change if it feels comfortable, that is a competitive environment, if switched to a Government style industry then your scenario would be more inclined to exist. something to keep, mind when asking the Gov't to run industry.
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Old 07-02-2014, 13:40   #27
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Re: Yanmar 4JH4AE catastrophic breakdown experience

Talk to your state's Insurance Commissioner and get their opinion.

Years a go a coworker had his policy canceled for no good reason. The coworker was looking for a new company and I suggested he talk to the Insurance Commissioner. He did and the policy was reinstated.

We have talked to the commission on occasion and they have been very helpful.

Later,
Dan
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Old 07-02-2014, 14:03   #28
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Re: Yanmar 4JH4AE catastrophic breakdown experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorchic34 View Post
If you had paid for an extended warranty I would have my Lawyer write a nice letter stating a dropped valve seat would be due to either improper machining or materials out of spec. Even if the valve stem head was faulty, the valve seat should not have dropped.

Yanmar has a reputation for building good engines. That may have been so 20-30 years ago. But WAY too many Yanmar engines have failures now a days.

Looks like its Beta engine time.

I've owned two Yanmars, a 3QM that broke a valve rocker bearing where it was cast at the valve tower and my current 3gm with the typical early 90's piston land failures. For me that's a 100% failure rate.

Sort of sounds like Yanmar has some QC issues with materials to me.
Yes...the only way for a seat to fail like that is the interference fit not to be in spec. Either the head cast bore was too large or the HSS seat ground too small in diameter. I use to use .001" interferrence fit per 1" of diameter of bore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by delmarrey View Post
Just out of curiosity, you say you only had 130 hours on the motor. How have you been storing the motor for the past 3+ years? A valve could have rusted up while just sitting around.

Motors like to run or they decompose just like anything else. If I were Yanmar I'd do an investigation and pull the head. And if the valve were rusty I would NOT warrantee it either. I suspect the valve stuck open and thats what raised hell in the cylinder.
Boats require maintenance! With out it, sitting in a saltwater environment takes it's toll.
Dell. I think you're talking about valve guides and not seats.
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Old 07-02-2014, 14:15   #29
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Re: Yanmar 4JH4AE catastrophic breakdown experience

I have been in the insurance industry for a number of years. The logic of insurance is simple. You and I agree to put $100 each in a jar each month to be used in case either needs it. What is in the jar dictates what the policy is worth to both of us. If you claim to need the money in the jar more than I do, then it no longer becomes a viable means for mitigating issues that may come up for me by transferring my risk to the jar. So we create rules that say you can only claim for X and if you have Y claims, you will need to add a little extra to the jar to be fair to me who have yet to partake from the jar. Insurance as it was designed... If the money in the jar exceeds the amount you or I will ever need, then we put less in the jar each month, or the money is refunded (mutual like USAA that sends us checks at the end of each year as there is no profit to be made).

There are very few hull policies that include maintenance items - READ YOUR POLICY. And many boat owners who think they are covered when their boat sinks at the dock find they are not based upon the contract they entered into whether we feel it is fair or not. Shopping on Premium alone.

The idea of keeping records dictates that you are a prudent person who goes above and beyond the reasonable expectations and maintains his boat to do his part in to help keep the money in the jar. That is very helpful when it comes time to determine if a maintenance issue sunk the boat for neglecting maintenance, or you did everything a reasonable person could be expected to do in order to maintain your boat in good order and the failure was not a result of neglect on your part and truly an unexpected catastrophe and you deserve to take some money from the jar.

It is because of fraud that more and more rules and exclusions are added. The large number of people who add money to the jar intending to use it to bail them out of whatever situation they got themselves into.

Survey is great. But that same survey will sink your claim IF a deficiency is found on the survey and you failed to fix it. No playing dumb on that, it was clear black and white and the policy language is also in black and white. So, if you get a survey and share it with your insurance company regardless of whether they ask to fix deficiencies or not (most underwriters have no idea what a deficiency is whereas the adjuster is pretty well versed on it - the underwriters usually use it to substantiate ACV), it is in your best interest to fix and document it.

In life we accept, mitigate and transfer risk. Buying an insurance policy is not transferring all the risk, it is still up to us to accept and mitigate and know our responsibilities - READ YOUR POLICY and know what you are buying.

Nut of the story. If you have all the documentation, logs, pictures, etc. and provide them to the adjuster, you have at least a 50% better chance of the claim being paid AND at a higher value. Your hull is normally Agreed Value, but everything attached is normally Actual Cash Value - meaning that swim platform is worth the cost of new minus years of depreciation and condition. Insurance is to put you back in the same place before, not make you better off.
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Old 07-02-2014, 15:49   #30
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Re: Yanmar 4JH4AE catastrophic breakdown experience

Another point. The engine and boat manufacturer both have insurance policies that are quite comprehensive but neither has a policy that covers them for bad workmanship or defects for their work. So, of course they are going to push back as it is cash out of their pocket.

Read your policy and anything you sign. If it says it is covered, hold them to it. But someone always has to pay and it usually comes back.

Here is a fun one that can be verified on many maritime legal sites:

You have your boat hauled at the local shipyard to have a new dripless packing installed. A week later, you pick up your boat and it sinks on the way back to the slip. Claim is denied and your policy cancelled for violating the terms of the policy.

Why?
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