Yanmar 1GM10 - Smoke, No Power - Page 4

John Pestana · 25-10-2009, 13:04

Bill, good luck only other advise I have is what mom always told me. If something does not make any sence go back to the very beginning caused you missed something

Chief Engineer · 25-10-2009, 18:23

I would go back to the installation of the injector pump.

I will check my book, but I believe the timing marks are visible on the flywheel. IIRC you have to pull the starter off to see them.

NCboatrx · 27-10-2009, 06:00

You say that the engine appears fine out of gear, but the problem is in gear To summarise: engine now seems to run pretty well out of gear. Put in gear and open throttle and you get clouds of diesel smoke and no power.
Have you checked it in forward as well as in reverse? We once had one that developed a bearing problem in the transmission and this only showed up in forward gear, not reverse.

bill good · 27-10-2009, 06:29

It sounds like the folding prop is not open fully. I have just replaced 2 old folding props & now get good speed. I would also check the RPM with an optical tacho. The tachos (two) both read the same & both were out by more than 500RPM on mine. I have spent Dollars on getting the props checked & repitched trying to get the RPM up to specs. The tachos were both out since new (1984) & the previous owner had never tried to find why they under read. Also has anyone altered the fuel injection limiter? If it wound out too far it will cause the over fueling & result in the diesel smoke & muck on the water like you described. (Check your PM)

billmcc · 31-10-2009, 14:55

BOAT IS GOING WELL AGAIN!!! Back to 5 knots with smoke only on the top inch of the throttle after hull speed is reached!
So what worked?????????
I put in the injector pump from my friend's engine.
As I said in the first post, I had the pump overhauled and calibrated with a trusted diesel specialist at considerable expense early on. Obviously he went wrong somewhere! I will be in to see him early Monday with both pumps in hand.
I still have an alternator problem - it gets very hot quickly and causes a lot of drag, but I don't mind dealing with that now the major mystery is solved.
A huge "thank you" to all of you for your kind suggestions: the whole saga has been extremely educational if frustrating.
Bill.

Chief Engineer · 31-10-2009, 16:56

Re-installation of the injector pump can be kind of tricky. One has to get the lever onto the "rack". It is very easy to mis-instal it. (is mis -install a word?)

With the removed injector pump in hand, rotate it...the slide should move under it's own weight. IIRC

billmcc · 31-10-2009, 17:18

"mis-install?" Nowadays ms.-install would probably be more PC!!!
Thanks Chief, but we are comfortable about installation of the pumps and their timing at this stage. On the 1GM10 you can put a finger through the oil-filler hole and locate the slide by feel. My assistant is an experienced marine mechanic on the crew of the local lifeboat, but even he has learnt something on this particular job!
Bill.

Chief Engineer · 31-10-2009, 20:37

Mis-install is when you inadvertantly overlook something, or a gasket slides out when you don't see it, or because of the "brilliant designs" of engine compartments by ""Yacht designers""....you have to do things by feel and mirrors.

BTW when you mention local lifeboat....am I to assume you are in England? RNLI?

chihuahuas · 31-10-2009, 20:47

Alternator tricks options you may consider.
Trick 1. Only turn on alternator if needed. 2 small wires enter the side op the alternator on a plug. The pin inside near the center of the alternator is the excite pin. If 12 volts is not present the alternater doesn't start. If a momentary 12 volts is added the alternater turns on. We have a push button to turn on the alternator. This optin is benificial when the sailboat is only used to race and is on a short haul to the starting line. For longer trips we turn on the alternator to power laptops and nav lights and whatever.

Trick 2. Alternator running to hard. Most boats have a bank of larger batteries. This little alternator can over work and smoke itself if it has to do too much work. To limit the output I add a 10 foot #10 or 8 gadge wire from the output terminal to the starter or battery swich. This reduces the output amps and allows the alternator to pump lower amounts of current. It works as a resistor. The alternator uses an internal regulator and sences the voltage at the output terminal. By adding the wire it adds a small resistance to the batteries and limits the load. Works good.

s/v 'Faith' · 31-10-2009, 20:53

Bill,

Glad you got her going again right. Back in post #10 I had asked;

Quote:

Originally Posted by s/v 'Faith'

....Who did the rebuild of the pump?

Was it a rebuild or did they swap it with another one they rebuilt?

The second question was to try to eliminate this, I wish I had followed up more on this question might have saved you a bunch of time.

Glad it is all sorted out now though.

billmcc · 01-11-2009, 13:13

Faith: Go to the top of the class! You correctly guessed the problem in post 10. Trusted expert overhauled my pump and reploaced interior parts at cost of 225 euro. Let's see what he says when I bring it back tomorrow.
Chief: South East of Ireland. RNLI covers all British Isles and approaches, with a lot of stations in Ireland. Each station has a professional mechanic and cox with volunteer crew. Mention of euro should have given you the clue to my location, in UK it is pound sterling. Boat is in fishery harbour Dunmore East, I live in Waterford City about 10 miles away. It is end-of-season here and I am due to crane out next week, but I was determined to repair engine with boat on the water so I could "road test" it.
Chihuahuas: Boat is a stripped-out racer, but I have 2 separate batteries and can hand-start, so I can leave alternator belt off for long periods. Alternator is new "reconditioned" and I will return it to supplier as it gets to hot to touch after a few minutes running.

s/v 'Faith' · 02-11-2009, 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by billmcc

Faith: Go to the top of the class! You correctly guessed the problem in post 10. Trusted expert overhauled my pump and reploaced interior parts at cost of 225 euro. Let's see what he says when I bring it back tomorrow...

Please post his findings (if he is willing to share).

THanks,

John Pestana · 07-11-2009, 10:41

Bill, sure glad you solved a fustrating situation don't give up on your alternator fix it right

SkiprJohn · 07-11-2009, 11:02

Whoopee!!!
regards,

delmarrey · 07-11-2009, 11:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by chihuahuas

Trick 2. Alternator running to hard. Most boats have a bank of larger batteries. This little alternator can over work and smoke itself if it has to do too much work. To limit the output I add a 10 foot #10 or 8 gadge wire from the output terminal to the starter or battery swich. This reduces the output amps and allows the alternator to pump lower amounts of current. It works as a resistor. The alternator uses an internal regulator and sences the voltage at the output terminal. By adding the wire it adds a small resistance to the batteries and limits the load. Works good.

Doesn't this wire get hot? Resistors do! That's why some are mounted in a insulation material. Why not just put in a resistor?

But on the other hand one shouldn't let their batteries get below 75%.

07-11-2009, 11:02	#59
SkiprJohn Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii Boat: Cascade, Cutter, 42 - "Casual" Posts: 5,191	Whoopee!!! regards, __________________ JohnL Click to Search Cruisers Forum Archives, Twenty Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere, Vigor, http://www.atomvoyages.com/articles/boatlist.htm, http://www.mahina.com/boats.html

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25-10-2009, 13:04	#46
John Pestana Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5	Bill, good luck only other advise I have is what mom always told me. If something does not make any sence go back to the very beginning caused you missed something

25-10-2009, 18:23	#47
Chief Engineer Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: North of Baltimore Boat: Ericson 27 & 18' Herrmann Catboat Posts: 2,004	I would go back to the installation of the injector pump. I will check my book, but I believe the timing marks are visible on the flywheel. IIRC you have to pull the starter off to see them.

27-10-2009, 06:00	#48
NCboatrx Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: North Carolina Posts: 42	You say that the engine appears fine out of gear, but the problem is in gear To summarise: engine now seems to run pretty well out of gear. Put in gear and open throttle and you get clouds of diesel smoke and no power. Have you checked it in forward as well as in reverse? We once had one that developed a bearing problem in the transmission and this only showed up in forward gear, not reverse.

27-10-2009, 06:29	#49
bill good Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Brisbane Australia Boat: Crowther windspeed 36' cat Goldrush Posts: 221	It sounds like the folding prop is not open fully. I have just replaced 2 old folding props & now get good speed. I would also check the RPM with an optical tacho. The tachos (two) both read the same & both were out by more than 500RPM on mine. I have spent Dollars on getting the props checked & repitched trying to get the RPM up to specs. The tachos were both out since new (1984) & the previous owner had never tried to find why they under read. Also has anyone altered the fuel injection limiter? If it wound out too far it will cause the over fueling & result in the diesel smoke & muck on the water like you described. (Check your PM)

31-10-2009, 14:55	#50
billmcc Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 15	BOAT IS GOING WELL AGAIN!!! Back to 5 knots with smoke only on the top inch of the throttle after hull speed is reached! So what worked????????? I put in the injector pump from my friend's engine. As I said in the first post, I had the pump overhauled and calibrated with a trusted diesel specialist at considerable expense early on. Obviously he went wrong somewhere! I will be in to see him early Monday with both pumps in hand. I still have an alternator problem - it gets very hot quickly and causes a lot of drag, but I don't mind dealing with that now the major mystery is solved. A huge "thank you" to all of you for your kind suggestions: the whole saga has been extremely educational if frustrating. Bill.

31-10-2009, 16:56	#51
Chief Engineer Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: North of Baltimore Boat: Ericson 27 & 18' Herrmann Catboat Posts: 2,004	Re-installation of the injector pump can be kind of tricky. One has to get the lever onto the "rack". It is very easy to mis-instal it. (is mis -install a word?) With the removed injector pump in hand, rotate it...the slide should move under it's own weight. IIRC

31-10-2009, 17:18	#52
billmcc Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 15	"mis-install?" Nowadays ms.-install would probably be more PC!!! Thanks Chief, but we are comfortable about installation of the pumps and their timing at this stage. On the 1GM10 you can put a finger through the oil-filler hole and locate the slide by feel. My assistant is an experienced marine mechanic on the crew of the local lifeboat, but even he has learnt something on this particular job! Bill.

31-10-2009, 20:37	#53
Chief Engineer Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: North of Baltimore Boat: Ericson 27 & 18' Herrmann Catboat Posts: 2,004	Mis-install is when you inadvertantly overlook something, or a gasket slides out when you don't see it, or because of the "brilliant designs" of engine compartments by ""Yacht designers""....you have to do things by feel and mirrors. BTW when you mention local lifeboat....am I to assume you are in England? RNLI?

31-10-2009, 20:47	#54
chihuahuas Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Hayes Va Yorktown Boat: should skippers write checks Posts: 14	Alternator tricks options you may consider. Trick 1. Only turn on alternator if needed. 2 small wires enter the side op the alternator on a plug. The pin inside near the center of the alternator is the excite pin. If 12 volts is not present the alternater doesn't start. If a momentary 12 volts is added the alternater turns on. We have a push button to turn on the alternator. This optin is benificial when the sailboat is only used to race and is on a short haul to the starting line. For longer trips we turn on the alternator to power laptops and nav lights and whatever. Trick 2. Alternator running to hard. Most boats have a bank of larger batteries. This little alternator can over work and smoke itself if it has to do too much work. To limit the output I add a 10 foot #10 or 8 gadge wire from the output terminal to the starter or battery swich. This reduces the output amps and allows the alternator to pump lower amounts of current. It works as a resistor. The alternator uses an internal regulator and sences the voltage at the output terminal. By adding the wire it adds a small resistance to the batteries and limits the load. Works good.

01-11-2009, 13:13	#56
billmcc Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 15	Faith: Go to the top of the class! You correctly guessed the problem in post 10. Trusted expert overhauled my pump and reploaced interior parts at cost of 225 euro. Let's see what he says when I bring it back tomorrow. Chief: South East of Ireland. RNLI covers all British Isles and approaches, with a lot of stations in Ireland. Each station has a professional mechanic and cox with volunteer crew. Mention of euro should have given you the clue to my location, in UK it is pound sterling. Boat is in fishery harbour Dunmore East, I live in Waterford City about 10 miles away. It is end-of-season here and I am due to crane out next week, but I was determined to repair engine with boat on the water so I could "road test" it. Chihuahuas: Boat is a stripped-out racer, but I have 2 separate batteries and can hand-start, so I can leave alternator belt off for long periods. Alternator is new "reconditioned" and I will return it to supplier as it gets to hot to touch after a few minutes running.

07-11-2009, 10:41	#58
John Pestana Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5	Bill, sure glad you solved a fustrating situation don't give up on your alternator fix it right