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Old 06-09-2006, 14:49   #1
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Why rig starters this way?

To engage the starter on the diesel in my sailboat you have to turn the key AND push a button at the same time. I had thought this was one of those peculiar quirks of an old, much modified, boat but have seen the same arrangment on several other sailboats.

My question is: Why?

I know that MOST boats do not have such an arrangement, but it seems common enough that some people must think it is a good idea.

I only ask because I am rebuilding the engine panel and want someone to convince me I should keep the push button that is in series with the starter switch in the key.

Bill
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Old 06-09-2006, 14:53   #2
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Bill, it sounds like someone couldn't find a proper ignition switch assembly and so just stuck in a starter switch and a key lock switch.

Whatever works for you.
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Old 06-09-2006, 16:18   #3
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I installed my new Westerbeke in 2002 and it is the same way. In my case it is to preheat the air intake.
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Old 06-09-2006, 16:21   #4
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Bill,
I assume you have a Westerbeke or Universal. The reason is to confirm activation of the pre-heat system.
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Old 07-09-2006, 03:51   #5
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I have buttons becuase when my switch started to fail, I was in Bahamas and didn't want to fly in an expensive Vovlo switch. I bought a button on Staniel Cay and installed it.

When the other switch started acting up going north, I matched the set up on the other engine.

It is probably a previous owner of your boat took a similar tack.

George
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Old 07-09-2006, 06:15   #6
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My Bukh DV20 works the same way, and the owners manual says to push it in when starting, and push it in when turning off.

If I don't push in when starting, the motor cranks but does not start. So I think the non depressed position must activate the fuel cut-off solenoid for some reason. Similarly if I just switch to the off position it does not stop, so must NOT be activating the fuel cut-off solenoid.

What I don't understand is why the start key must be released the instant the engine fires. If I don't, the alarm will sound.

I actually burnt out the fuel cut-off solenoid by misuse of the start key. My daughter started the engine and must not have released the key in time. Sadly, the alarm was inoperative at the time, so we were unaware of the problem until about 10 minutes later when the solenoid started smoking. By then it was too late, so I had to use the decompression lever to shut it down.

The Bukh representive said this was a common occurrence, and was caused by putting the key in wrong position. The owner's manual warns about leaving the key in the wrong position due to high current usage by the solenoid.

Still doesn't make sense to me why it would burn out when the engine is running.
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Old 07-09-2006, 09:01   #7
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"The Bukh representive said this was a common occurrence," Engine controls that make minor fires a common occurence...hmmmm.....One can only wonder what the schematic for that system looks like, and what makes them think it is a better idea to do things that way.

One ignition key (spring loaded) and one manual "preheat" button, also spring loaded, if there are glow plugs or something else that might need to be used "but not all the time"....would seem to be the simplest way to do it, given that most boaters have been trained on auto ignition keys.
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Old 08-09-2006, 08:33   #8
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Thanks for the thoughts... but no good answers yet....

Partly because I was not clear enough in my original description. The engine is a Westerbeke 4-154, vintage 1974. It is NOT the preheat... that is a seperate button not at all interlocked to the starter. The panel has the keyswitch and three buttons. Preheat, Start (the topic of this thread) and stop (which activates a solenoid to shut off fuel at the injection pump).

The key switch is a standard 3 position switch (off-run-start) switch. To run the starter you must push turn the key to start, and push the button. The button is simply in series with the key switch in the power to the starter solenoid.

A bit of research in the service manual confirms that this was the original factory design, but still no clue as to why....

As an aside, I have yet to go sailing in weather where the pre-heat had any effect on the engine start at all. Down to 40F it just fires right up, pre-heat or not. None too shabby for a 30 year old engine with 6200 hours.

My theory? In a salt water world, the spring return on the start key switch is less than 100% reliable, so the momentary contact push button protects the starter from a sticking key switch. Lame, I know, but it is best I can come up with!
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Old 08-09-2006, 10:14   #9
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"... The button is simply in series with the key switch in the power to the starter solenoid ...
... the momentary contact push button protects the starter from a sticking key switch ..."

A series Pushbutton serves no practical purpose in the situation you describe. Granted, it is cheaper to build a more robust Momentary Push Button Switch (than a robust Ignition Sw), but the cost of a cheap Ignition Switch plus a P.B. would exceed the cost of a robust ignition switch. Accordingly, I am suspicious of the claim that it's factory wiring, and of no additional purpose (such as pre-heat).

I once installed a parallel P.B. (directly to starter) in an old 457 CID Chevy truck, because the solenoid would sometimes "stick" due to high temperatures and poor heat shielding.
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Old 08-09-2006, 10:54   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay
Accordingly, I am suspicious of the claim that it's factory wiring, and of no additional purpose (such as pre-heat).
It's not exactly a "claim"... it's the way the service manual draws the wiring diagram... the preheat pushbutton really is a seperate circuit.

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A series Pushbutton serves no practical purpose...
I SAID my explaination was lame! and so far nobody has a better one!
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Old 08-09-2006, 11:00   #11
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Ummm...maybe the "twist and push" design is supposed to be a safety, to prevent rugrats from accidentally starting the engine? I've seen stranger "safety interlocks" used. In fact, there's an identical one in the sunroof of my car, you have to push a button AND hold in the motor switch to close the hatch. (Well, somehow that safety button jammed in the "on" position in the first week I owned it.<G>)
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Old 09-09-2006, 05:28   #12
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Not to put too fine a point on it, and certainly not intended as a criticism:
"... the way the service manual draws the wiring diagram... the preheat pushbutton really is a seperate circuit ..."
A component (ie: P.B.) is usually considered to be part of a single circuit, when it is wired in series, and either enables (normally open) or disables (normally closed) other components in the same circuit.
I would usually reserve the term "separate circuit" for those elements that are wired in parallel.
Your supposition is not as "lame" as is the redundant series P.B. ~ could just be a quirky "Lucas" peculiarity.
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Old 09-09-2006, 07:55   #13
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"could just be a quirky "Lucas" peculiarity."
Lucas, as in that revered British institution lovingly referred to by sports car owners as "The Prince of Darkness" ? <G>
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