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Old 17-01-2015, 11:46   #76
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Re: Which new engine for repower

I have read with great interest all of your comments and opinions. They seem to echo with the same recurring comments about Yanmar and Perkins and Volvo.


I need to repower my 39' Allied ketch and want to increase the power when I do. I have been warned away from a rebuild of my Westerbeke 40 (Perkins/Mazda 4.154) due to obsolescence and increasingly harder to get parts.


My specs:
No electronics
No 3" exhaust conversion
Easily found parts and service
Ease of maintenance (Beta)
Ease of installation/conversion
Lower RPM diesel with lower fuel consumption


Questions:
Is the Westerbeke 40 (Perkins/Mazda 4.154) truly obsolete?
What other engine besides the Yanmar 4JH3E has the same foot print as the W40?
Has anybody had any experience with the Cummins 4B 3.3M from TAD?


Your insights would be very much appreciated.
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Old 17-01-2015, 12:53   #77
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Re: Which new engine for repower

When you get a new engine access to parts should be a non issue for a very long time. I personally would not consider a new engine that was going to need parts anytime soon, ten years? That's why I have chosen the Beta for my last boat and my new old boat. A hidden benefit of a repower is no engine trouble for years and years. Access to engine parts and there cost should be considered if buying a boat or contemplating a repower over fixing the old one.


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Old 18-01-2015, 07:53   #78
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Re: Which new engine for repower

You are so right. I don't think I will have this new/old boat for more than 10 years. During that time it should not need parts if it is a quality engine and is well cared for.

The Beta is high on my list of favorites; probably the Beta 60. I really like the ease of access to important maintenance items.

I have been looking at the Westerbeke line and I'm trying to find someone to discuss the Cummins with.

Yamaha has fallen way down the list. I want a slower running diesel with a steeper power curve and Beta certainly offers that.
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Old 18-01-2015, 08:15   #79
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Re: Which new engine for repower

Keep this talk up fellows as after starting this thread we have hauled out our engine while we are at anchor. Dropped it into a skiff using our main boom and we are now cleaning the bedding area. Our new Beta 50 is on its way and after some small mods on the engine beds we will drop it in. I need lots of reinforcement on spending so damn much money on an older boat skippered by and older guy. I know, you can't take it to the grave!
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Old 18-01-2015, 08:35   #80
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Re: Which new engine for repower

Robert,

Please give me/us more information on the size of your boat and the engine you are replacing, etc...

I am like you; and older guy fixing up a classic plastic heavy cruiser and I need reinforcement as well.
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Old 18-01-2015, 08:40   #81
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Re: Which new engine for repower

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Originally Posted by mackrobertson View Post
Robert,

Please give me/us more information on the size of your boat and the engine you are replacing, etc...

I am like you; and older guy fixing up a classic plastic heavy cruiser and I need reinforcement as well.
Hi Mack...Its a Moody 425 that had a marinized version of a little Ford diesel from Britain. We are installing a Beta 50 in its place and I think I will add a 3 blade Flexifold propeller to the mix to replace my current Autoprop which is now undersized for the Beta.
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Old 18-01-2015, 08:51   #82
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Re: Which new engine for repower

Robert,

I was just looking at the Beta Marine website to try and compare the power curve of the Beta 50 with the one for the Beta 60. Unfortunately, the power graph they have on the web site for the Beta 50 appears to be the same one as the one for the Beta 38, so I cannot make a comparison. It could be that the 50 would be enough engine for my boat (Allied 39' ketch).

I am more and more convinced that I should go with a Beta since it wouldn't require a change to the exhaust system and it has a small footprint that would fit my engine mounts. They offer all of the add-ons I need: high output alternator, water heater connections as well.

Can you tell me what you paid for the 50?
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Old 18-01-2015, 09:24   #83
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Re: Which new engine for repower

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Originally Posted by mackrobertson View Post
Robert,

I was just looking at the Beta Marine website to try and compare the power curve of the Beta 50 with the one for the Beta 60. Unfortunately, the power graph they have on the web site for the Beta 50 appears to be the same one as the one for the Beta 38, so I cannot make a comparison. It could be that the 50 would be enough engine for my boat (Allied 39' ketch).

I am more and more convinced that I should go with a Beta since it wouldn't require a change to the exhaust system and it has a small footprint that would fit my engine mounts. They offer all of the add-ons I need: high output alternator, water heater connections as well.

Can you tell me what you paid for the 50?
The 50 has a very flat torque curve, I can swing an 18" prop on it to take advantage of that. The 38 is a 1500cc engine that gets its horse power at 3600rpm. The 43 shares the same exterior to the 50 but is 2000cc and puts out 43hp at 2800rpm. The 50 is a 2200cc engine and puts out 50hp at 2800rpm. The 60 is 2400cc and similar flat torque curve.I want to be able to achieve hull speed at around 2000rpm where I get good fuel economy and Flexfold tells me I can using their 18"x17 prop. Several people have used the 43 on our size of Moody and were happy with it, certainly a lot more power than the original 1600cc Ford. Yes I really like the new serpentine belts as we drive a large alternator although I will now use them as spares as I spec'd the 120 amp with the engine. Also have the C panel which is the best most complete panel they make although I'm told if you don't really keep the key/lock well lubed it will rust(go figure). The price was a bit of a moving target between me and the dealer as we had special freight charges etc. but you can figure on 15% discount below list if buying through the US distributor in NC. Still makes it more expensive than Volvo or Yanmar by close to a couple of grand and I'm probably not going to live long enough to make it back on parts, LOL. but I do like the motor and how its set up for servicing.
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Old 18-01-2015, 10:18   #84
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Re: Which new engine for repower

I see the flat torque curve you are talking about. But the power graph shows the rangeability on the power curve that I like. from a low of 15 Hp at 1000 rpm with about 1.5L/h of fuel to 43 hp at 1800 rpm and 3L/h.


The Westerbeke 40 (Perkins 4.154) I am replacing only got 35 hp (max) at 3000 rpm (max) and consumed 10L/h. So I'm sure I can be at hull speed at around 2000 rpm with plenty of power to spare and considerable fuel savings.


I am prepared for it to be expensive and the $2000 extra will be made up in savings since it fits my existing engine mounts and exhaust system arrangement. The installation modifications required for most re-power jobs seems to be what most people complain about. Both expected and unforeseen work and their associated costs far exceed their expectations. I hope to avoid much of that with my choice of engine.


I haven't been able to find any "price list" for the Beta line. If you have access to the base costs for their engines I would like to check it out.


I am not sure of the best choice of props. I will have to get some recommendations on that subject, so your information on the Flexfold. I will research it some more.
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Old 18-01-2015, 10:40   #85
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Re: Which new engine for repower

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Originally Posted by mackrobertson View Post
I see the flat torque curve you are talking about. But the power graph shows the rangeability on the power curve that I like. from a low of 15 Hp at 1000 rpm with about 1.5L/h of fuel to 43 hp at 1800 rpm and 3L/h.


The Westerbeke 40 (Perkins 4.154) I am replacing only got 35 hp (max) at 3000 rpm (max) and consumed 10L/h. So I'm sure I can be at hull speed at around 2000 rpm with plenty of power to spare and considerable fuel savings.


I am prepared for it to be expensive and the $2000 extra will be made up in savings since it fits my existing engine mounts and exhaust system arrangement. The installation modifications required for most re-power jobs seems to be what most people complain about. Both expected and unforeseen work and their associated costs far exceed their expectations. I hope to avoid much of that with my choice of engine.


I haven't been able to find any "price list" for the Beta line. If you have access to the base costs for their engines I would like to check it out.


I am not sure of the best choice of props. I will have to get some recommendations on that subject, so your information on the Flexfold. I will research it some more.
Base price is $16,262 plus depending on which side our exhaust is on you may need a hi rise which was $305 plus a hot water outlet $60. It comes with everything else as well as custom mounts and flex shaft coupling. Take 15% off the base above. If you are used to fixed props they are the cheapest by far but I like the additional performance from a folder. Cheers, R
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Old 18-01-2015, 10:41   #86
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Re: Which new engine for repower

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Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
Base price is $16,262 plus depending on which side our exhaust is on you may need a hi rise which was $305 plus a hot water outlet $60. It comes with everything else as well as custom mounts and flex shaft coupling. Take 15% off the base above. If you are used to fixed props they are the cheapest by far but I like the additional performance from a folder. Cheers, R
Forgot to mention that the 43 is a grand plus cheaper.
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Old 18-01-2015, 10:55   #87
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Re: Which new engine for repower

Thanks for the information. Pricey, but about the same as the Cummins 4B3.3M (65 Hp) with the discount. The Cummins is bigger and would involve a lot of modifications and recommends an increase to 2.5" exhaust, which I want to avoid.

The exhaust connection is on the same side, but I need the water heater connection and the 120 a alternator options.

I am becoming more convinced of this choice. Thanks for the input/advice.

Do you have a link to the Beta price list?
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Old 18-01-2015, 11:05   #88
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Re: Which new engine for repower

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Originally Posted by mackrobertson View Post
Thanks for the information. Pricey, but about the same as the Cummins 4B3.3M (65 Hp) with the discount. The Cummins is bigger and would involve a lot of modifications and recommends an increase to 2.5" exhaust, which I want to avoid.

The exhaust connection is on the same side, but I need the water heater connection and the 120 a alternator options.

I am becoming more convinced of this choice. Thanks for the input/advice.

Do you have a link to the Beta price list?
No link, you have to get in touch with them and they will send you one. Ya the bigger exhaust was an issue for me as well as the Yanmar goes to 3". Local guy was going to simply bring in the 3" to the water muffler with a 2" leading out but I didn't like the idea as I know the back pressure has to be in certain tolerances. Either way my decision is a done deal and you are still in the due diligence stage, happy to help you. Cheers, Robert
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Old 20-01-2015, 07:57   #89
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Re: Which new engine for repower

Well I just got a call from the local Beta dealer who advised me that the engine that I payed in full for that was to leave Britain on the 9th of this month has not left yet as it was held up for whatever reasons.

Meanwhile we sit on the hook without an engine hoping the wind gods are good to us while we wait. The engine should have been installed by now and that rips me.

Not an impressive start for this company that is supposed to look after their customers, you would have thought they would have emailed me considering that they are 10 days behind on getting the engine shipped knowing full well we were sitting on the hook.

I'll let you know how this whole thing works out but my first impressions are not very good, seems once they have your money they take whatever time they feel like getting the engine out the door.
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Old 20-01-2015, 09:49   #90
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Re: Which new engine for repower

Sorry for your problem. Probably one more thing to add to the repower list. How fast can the mfr deliver.


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