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Old 20-07-2015, 15:20   #1
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Which engine oil for Yanmar

Oil was previously changed by services technicians on my Yanmar 3JH3(C)E engines, but now I need to change the engine oil myself and I am not sure which oil to use. the service manual says;

"Use the following lube oil: API classification ..... CD"

I do not understand what this means. I know oil as "15W-40" or "15W-50", etc. Can somebody kindly advise me what engine oil to use?
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Old 20-07-2015, 15:33   #2
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Re: Which engine oil for Yanmar

CD is old and not produced anymore, use CH, CI, or CJ. Make sure it's a "C", that's the designation for diesel engines.

http://www.api.org/~/media/files/cer...glish_2013.pdf
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Old 20-07-2015, 15:54   #3
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Re: Which engine oil for Yanmar

Be cautious when selecting oils for older diesel engines. As the link Dot Dun posted regarding current classification CJ oils -these oils may only be appropriate with low sulfur diesel fuel as is currently used in the US. They are primarily reformulated due to environmental reasons, not engine longevity.

Heavy duty truck oils such as Delo (Chevron), Rotella (Shell) and Mobil (can't remember the name of their oil) may be your best bet.

Oil threads can be worse than anchor threads
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Old 20-07-2015, 15:56   #4
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Re: Which engine oil for Yanmar

Look on the label for the API "doughnut". Sorry, I couldn't find a suitable image for the "C" Service grade.
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Old 20-07-2015, 16:09   #5
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Re: Which engine oil for Yanmar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelations View Post
"Use the following lube oil: API classification ..... CD"
That's an API class. C stands for 'compression engine', i.e. diesel engine (as opposed to Spark ignition engines).


The second letter (D, F, I, J etc) can be thought of as marking 'generations' of formulations. CD is an older generation; CI is a recent generation.


And the CD class may be important. Yanmar recommends use of the earlier generations as lube oil in the engine and some of the Kanzaki gearboxes.


The issue is that additives in the more recent API classes (such as CI and CJ) are thought to be incompatible with use in Kanzaki gearboxes and those additives do not burn well in certain Yanmar engines, leaving nasty residues.


The more recent API classes suit more recent diesel engines, including turbo diesel engines. Some of the additives in classes CI and CJ are believed to be abrasive if used in gearboxes.


These days, the API CF class is about the earliest generation you can find (at least in developed economies).


In Australia, Power Equipment distributes Yanmar marine engines. And Power Equipment also distributes CF class monograde oils carrying the Yanmar brand name. A very similar oil is sold in Australia by Caltex as Delo Silver CF monograde.



In the US, for historical reasons, Caltex is now called Chevron. Chevron produces the same CF oils under the Delo Silver brand.


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Old 20-07-2015, 17:04   #6
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Re: Which engine oil for Yanmar

Thank you all - appreciated!
I now have a better understanding of the oil required.
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Old 20-07-2015, 17:22   #7
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Re: Which engine oil for Yanmar

Shell Rotella T
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Old 21-07-2015, 03:21   #8
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Re: Which engine oil for Yanmar

Post 5 (Alan Mighty) sums it up pretty good.

For some more light reading see
Which Engine Oil Do You Use (& Why)
and
http://coxengineering.sharepoint.com...htengines.aspx
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Old 21-07-2015, 03:56   #9
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Re: Which engine oil for Yanmar

Lots of good advice here. Do not by any means use a higher classification than specified or equivalent, and for God's sake no synthetic. Read the Vyv Cox article linked above for why.

Yanmar oil is CF4. That's what I use, although I do find CD from time to time.
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Old 21-07-2015, 07:16   #10
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Re: Which engine oil for Yanmar

Ever since the 70's when Syn oil first became available there has been all kinds of folklore against Syn oils, every thing from never put them in an engine until it's broken in, to it will ruin your engine, eat out the oil seals, all kinds of horror stories, none of which have come true.
Can you imagine the class action Lawsuit if any of this were true?
For the last 20 years or more many higher end automobiles come with Syn oil as a factory fill, Corvettes for example have had Mobil 1 oil in them from the factory for a very long time and somehow or another they all "break in" very well.
My boat has it's original 1987 4-JHBE engine in it, I have run Shell Rotella T6 (a Syn oil) in it since I bought the boat a little more than a year ago. I've put maybe 300 hours on it, and ran it constantly for about 50 hours a couple of weeks ago. The engine burns about a half a quart per hundred hours of use.
Seriously, do you think Major oil companies like Shell would risk their reputations by selling an oil that would ruin older engines, and not warn you to not use it in older engines?

Now, I would concur that it's entirely possible that you don't really need Syn oil in your boat Diesel, and that you would be better off by saving the money that Syn oil costs and putting it towards more frequent oil changes with a less expensive oil, but I don't buy into the Syn oil will ruin your engine either.

BTW, TBN is "Total Base Number" it's a measurement of the oils ability to neutralize acid, acid build up, especially in engines that aren't run for extended times at high temperatures is to a great extent what determines the useful life of the oil, acid leads to sludge and damages your engine, you want the acid neutralized. Now while it may be true that with today's low sulfur Diesel fuels that TBN isn't as important as it used to be, high TBN has always been one measure of a good oil.

Whatever oil you chose, the best thing you can do is change it often, I'd say at least twice a yr, even if you only motor only a few hours.
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Old 21-07-2015, 08:24   #11
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Re: Which engine oil for Yanmar

I agree with a64 pilot. I have used synthetic oil in all of my cars since Mobil first came out with it. I have used synthetic in my boats for 30 years. I use Shell synthetic in our Beneteau 76 hp turbo diesel and Fischer Panda genset since 2006. Both Yanmar and Panda said it is a good thing to do. Oh, and I don't change it often. We have 2200 h on the Yanmar and 2100 h on the Panda. Niether use any oil.
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Old 21-07-2015, 13:14   #12
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Re: Which engine oil for Yanmar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelations View Post
Oil was previously changed by services technicians on my Yanmar 3JH3(C)E engines, but now I need to change the engine oil myself and I am not sure which oil to use. the service manual says;

"Use the following lube oil: API classification ..... CD"

I do not understand what this means. I know oil as "15W-40" or "15W-50", etc. Can somebody kindly advise me what engine oil to use?
I don't fully understand API classification either. I simply buy my oil from the local Yanmar agent. The price is very reasonable and they know the correct oil. If you can do that, keep the container which is labeled with the oil specs. Then if you are away somewhere take the empty container to an oil supplier to get a match or take a supply away with you.


I used to use Mobil One Delvac synthetic until the price became outrageous. I'm sure it's good oil but it didn't prevent my 2GM 20 needing a complete rebuild after 12 or so years. I do use Mobil One synthetic in my cars though which is a lot cheaper than the Delvac version for diesel engines.


A boat owner on a nearby finger told me he was having great difficulty changing his oil. Turned out he was trying to drain the sump as you would in a car. I suggested he gets one of those manual extraction pumps where you put a pipe down the dipstick hole. Just in case you don't know about them. They probably don't remove all the old oil but I don't think that matters if you run the motor for a while first to mix it up. Be careful though as its hot then.
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Old 21-07-2015, 13:17   #13
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Re: Which engine oil for Yanmar

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Ever since the 70's when Syn oil first became available there has been all kinds of folklore against Syn oils, every thing from never put them in an engine until it's broken in, to it will ruin your engine, eat out the oil seals, all kinds of horror stories, none of which have come true.
Can you imagine the class action Lawsuit if any of this were true?
For the last 20 years or more many higher end automobiles come with Syn oil as a factory fill, Corvettes for example have had Mobil 1 oil in them from the factory for a very long time and somehow or another they all "break in" very well.
My boat has it's original 1987 4-JHBE engine in it, I have run Shell Rotella T6 (a Syn oil) in it since I bought the boat a little more than a year ago. I've put maybe 300 hours on it, and ran it constantly for about 50 hours a couple of weeks ago. The engine burns about a half a quart per hundred hours of use.
Seriously, do you think Major oil companies like Shell would risk their reputations by selling an oil that would ruin older engines, and not warn you to not use it in older engines?

Now, I would concur that it's entirely possible that you don't really need Syn oil in your boat Diesel, and that you would be better off by saving the money that Syn oil costs and putting it towards more frequent oil changes with a less expensive oil, but I don't buy into the Syn oil will ruin your engine either.

BTW, TBN is "Total Base Number" it's a measurement of the oils ability to neutralize acid, acid build up, especially in engines that aren't run for extended times at high temperatures is to a great extent what determines the useful life of the oil, acid leads to sludge and damages your engine, you want the acid neutralized. Now while it may be true that with today's low sulfur Diesel fuels that TBN isn't as important as it used to be, high TBN has always been one measure of a good oil.

Whatever oil you chose, the best thing you can do is change it often, I'd say at least twice a yr, even if you only motor only a few hours.
Well, in the Vyv Cox article linked above, there is concrete information about why synthetic is bad for a marine diesel engine. Have you read it? Yanmar also strongly advises against it.

If you prefer your own deductive reasoning to the recommendations of your engine's manufacturer, and to those of a professional lubrication engineer like Vyv Cox - well, it's your engine - up to you.

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Old 21-07-2015, 14:00   #14
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Re: Which engine oil for Yanmar

Interesting. Yanmar said to use it. Farymann Diesel also told me to use it. Of course it has to be synthetic for diesels.
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Old 21-07-2015, 15:15   #15
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Re: Which engine oil for Yanmar

I've read the article before, don't have any idea who Cox is though. Heck I can show you internet articles that prove the pyramids were built by aliens too, written by people with Doctorates no less, yet I don't believe aliens built the pyramids.
I've built engines for the last 40 years or so, from aircraft engines to drag racing motorcycle engines, to JD backhoes and a few Marine engines. I've never seen any harm that can be contributed to Syn oil, yet I have dis-assembled engines with tens of thousands of hours on them to find them with little or no varnish or sludge that ran Syn oil.
Do you really believe that article where it says he ruined his engine by motoring for 30 hours?
He tried twice to hone his engine un-successfully, only to have the cylinders glaze, both times? Yet I'm sure there must be thousands or sailboats running Syn oil in their engines with no such catastrophie? I just came off of a two week trip where I motored far more than I liked, well more than 30 hours straight, using Syn oil, with no bad effect.
But what really puzzles me is how TBN can be linked to glazed cylinder walls, deposit build up on piston heads and the like?

Now I've said repeatedly that running Syn oil may be of no real benefit to most of our relatively low RPM, low HP per cu in engines that do not I believe put excessive heat into their oils, especially if you only run 100 hours a year or less. But anyone that claims that running Syn oil in a Diesel for 30 hours will ruin it, loses credibility to me.
I've put ten times that many hours on my engine, all with Rotella T6, yet it's not ruined, how could that be?
I'll continue to use Rotella T6 in my engine, you continue to use what you like, and I'll bet as long as we both change it regularly and treat our engines well, we both get good service out of our engines.

Honestly I believe that the best value in oils is probably a straight weight oil with a good detergent package, anything more than that is probably a waste of money in most of our engines, but heck I like when I pull the valve cover off to see no sludge or varnish and good Syn oils give me that.


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