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Old 20-09-2014, 11:12   #46
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Re: Which Engine Oil Do You Use (& Why)

" USED to use rotella or delo which ever i could find on shelves where i cruise..and 40 wt.
then i suffered runaway diesel and the repairing of the changes from that incident are still in final stages" Zeehag

Zee,
Are you telling us that 40 Weight oil caused your diesel runaway? I think this is misleading since engine runaway is caused by an engine with poor compression where oil/oil mist "blows by" the rings into the air intake via crankcase. This "overfueling" also happens when an engine is sludged or overfilled with oil. Your 40 weight oil had nothing to do with your problem.
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Old 20-09-2014, 11:20   #47
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Re: Which Engine Oil Do You Use (& Why)

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Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
" USED to use rotella or delo which ever i could find on shelves where i cruise..and 40 wt.
then i suffered runaway diesel and the repairing of the changes from that incident are still in final stages" Zeehag

Zee,
Are you telling us that 40 Weight oil caused your diesel runaway? I think this is misleading since engine runaway is caused by an engine with poor compression where oil/oil mist "blows by" the rings into the air intake via crankcase. This "overfueling" also happens when an engine is sludged or overfilled with oil. Your 40 weight oil had nothing to do with your problem.

rodlmffao. and, in this case, you are wrong, sorry.
i do not associate my runaway with use of any specific oil nor of compression, as those were not at issue.
MY runaway was caused DIRECTLY by injector pump AND lift pump fails, simultaneously with injector fail.
not by compression, get over that one,
and not by oil based excuses.
my runaway was strictly fuel delivery system induced.
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Old 20-09-2014, 11:29   #48
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Re: Which Engine Oil Do You Use (& Why)

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rodlmffao. and, in this case, you are wrong, sorry.
i do not associate my runaway with use of any specific oil nor of compression, as those were not at issue.
MY runaway was caused DIRECTLY by injector pump AND lift pump fails, simultaneously with injector fail.
not by compression, get over that one,
and not by oil based excuses.
my runaway was strictly fuel delivery system induced.

Zee,
Thanks for the clarification. However, how does a lift pump and injectors cause runaway? What principle is involved that overfuels the engine?
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Old 20-09-2014, 14:31   #49
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Re: Which Engine Oil Do You Use (& Why)

want the math?? find someone else.
i took my engine and my injector pump and my lift pump and my injectors out of the boat and had all redone. it was concluded the injector pump fail and lift pump fail contributed to the runaway and that there was no blowby. there was no scoring there was no lipping... so.. what you want--mebbe get inside engine to smell the problem or something?? cracking all 4 injectors broke the runaway. rebuilding all cured any and all problems. after 5 months of idleness, 2 injectors were blocked clogged rusted shut...now replaced and other injectors were rebuilt.
there is more than one cause of runaway diesel. there was same amount of oil in crankcase after incident as before. i know as i am the one who checked it.
how is that a problem for you, as you arent the one benefitting from this knowledge nor function wise??
you only have argumentative questions, not helpful answers nor additional information on diesel engines.
those who were interested in the process of learning the problem and curing the problem seem to have understood it. you were not here with this particular runaway incident.
gods know the injector pump rebuilder is a lot smarter than non sailing wannabes in a discussion board.
there was a looonnngg 3 year history all spelled out throughout the time of the fail process.
i suggest you find where it is posted and re read it allllll. that should help your curiosity as well as what else ails ye on this topic.
this engine ranaway due to fuel delivery system catastrophic fail after 3000miles of use, only.
perhaps , as my hands fail, you can research my writings in full in every forum in which i post and find the step by step deterioration as well as the step by step rebuildment process we underwent.
i see no reason to repost all the steps i went thru at this point .
the incident had NOTHING to do with engine oil.
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Old 20-09-2014, 15:03   #50
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Re: Which Engine Oil Do You Use (& Why)

Well, Zee,
You spent considerable energy and much tirade but really didn't answer my question. I will assume that your venting and assumptions were much needed therapy for your unfortunate engine problems and I wouldn't dare broach that subject with you again for fear of even greater unreserved verbal attack of my interrogatives or perhaps a personal emotional deconstruction on your part. So, my apologies for asking a serious question. However, us sailing wannabees, (as you have described me)for whom you must have clairvoyant knowledge of my past and present (do you read Tarot?)have never claimed to have the intelligence and wisdom of a "injection pump rebuilder." Such knowledge is reserved for only the Gods--in my case they would be Norse. My best wishes to you and your cat(is he/she clairvoyant?)and may your engine always be filled with the manufacturers recommended oil. Good luck and good sailing.
Yours Truly,
Rognvald Oil Fingers
A.K.A. Sailing Wannabee
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Old 20-09-2014, 15:21   #51
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Re: Which Engine Oil Do You Use (& Why)

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Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
Well, Zee,
You spent considerable energy and much tirade but really didn't answer my question. I will assume that your venting and assumptions were much needed therapy for your unfortunate engine problems and I wouldn't dare broach that subject with you again for fear of even greater unreserved verbal attack of my interrogatives or perhaps a personal emotional deconstruction on your part. So, my apologies for asking a serious question. However, us sailing wannabees, (as you have described me)for whom you must have clairvoyant knowledge of my past and present (do you read Tarot?)have never claimed to have the intelligence and wisdom of a "injection pump rebuilder." Such knowledge is reserved for only the Gods--in my case they would be Norse. My best wishes to you and your cat(is he/she clairvoyant?)and may your engine always be filled with the manufacturers recommended oil. Good luck and good sailing.
Yours Truly,
Rognvald Oil Fingers
A.K.A. Sailing Wannabee

i splained my engine's problems. i also stated in detail the symptoms as found.
sorry you didnt read of these issues as as they occurred nor have ability to use search feature.
the ability to understand that fuel delivery is a problem that can cause runaway diesel even without poor compression in the internals of the engine.

if you cannot understand that concept, then i can understand your angst. dont let my enjoyment of my cruising life get in your way or in any way inhibit your inability to understand my words.
never once did i ever say i was unfortunate. mebbe you need a new set of tarot cards, as you seem to use them soo very much. mebbe your ouiji board needs calibration...
rodlmffao.
my manufacturer is a team of lovely individuals who understand engines. and they are above excellent. not a corporation, which is the amerikun way. sorry aint in usa to be forced to overpay for my repairs by someone who cannot understand their work, or be proud of their workmanship.....


my IN YOUR WORDS "unfortunate" problems were and are not unfortunate, as i splained to loosey and in gory detail many times on htis forum.. search function is here for a reason., is usable and directs folks to the articles desired, in many cases.


i have a completely new engine for under 4000 usd and that includes my injector pump and everything. i am most fortunate soul on this planet.
perhaps re-reading of my postings might help you to understand "mo bedda" the words as they were written.

back to the original subject... there are limited brand names and many do not cross international borders but change on their pathway to the stores in countries not usa.
it might be a good idea to remember this when you go to autozone to find diesel oil in mexico, for example, as you will NOT find rotella nor delo.
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Old 20-09-2014, 15:49   #52
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Re: Which Engine Oil Do You Use (& Why)

O.K. Zee,
I know when I'm outgunned. So, sitting at my desk, I am contemplating writing a book about Paradise. It will be called "Paradise Lost" and it will feature Rognvald and Eve ,without sin, in the Garden of Eden. A snake appears in the tree and asks Eve to eat an apple. She, although knowing it's forbidden, eats the apple and I do the same. After I take a bite, I realize it tastes like oil, straight 40 weight. I wonder, after eating the apple, will the oil give me blowby and cause runaway? Eve looked puzzled but wants to have sex. I willingly agree. After a rather remarkable session, the Norse Gods banish us from Paradise and my special punishment is to remain seated at my desk for the rest of my life. What do you think? Will it sell? Good luck and good sailing. Rognvald the Repentant
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Old 20-09-2014, 16:38   #53
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Re: Which Engine Oil Do You Use (& Why)

After a somewhat biblical and carnal interlude, I will now return to (and bore the rest of us) with matters of lubrication more suited to small diesel engines rather than for personal use.

The crux of matter (as it seems from the posts so far) is that small boat engines were designed decades ago and built for oils that were easily available at that time. These oils are less available now days and most current oils are manufactured to newer different specifications.

While it is intuitive to think that new higher spec. oils must be better, the internet jury is still out and the secondhand evidence from the same "experts" is at the best, conflicting. Shell has been quoted for both sides of the argument .

One thing is clear, the idea of using the manufacturer's recommend oil can't be faulted.

Dockhead and myself (who live in opposite geographical sides of the first world) are both having trouble sourcing the recommended oil for a small Yanmar. Others have reported no such difficulties but I think the issue will get worse rather that better.


So are the newer API ratings suitable for older engines?
I think there is no definitive and authoritative answer. The size of the market for small boat engines must be astonishing small and the percentage of the oil market for their use must be even smaller. The engine manufacturers are not going to carry out extensive real world testing of new oils in old designs and neither are the oil manufacturers - there is just simply no market advantage in doing so.

We, the cruising community (who are also a very small segment of the already small boating market) are left to do the real world testing and IMO, we are grossly inadequate for the job (through no fault of our own).

The posts so far tend to indicate that those of us who don't (or can't) use the recommended oil don't worry to much and just use what seems to an appropriate oil and the others do worry (and overthink?) the situation and still use what seems to be appropriate oil.

Neither of these groups really know if what they are doing is best practice or not but only one group worry about it..

I used to belong to the laid back care free "any old oil" camp but I now find myself firmly entrenched in the "oils 'aint oils" fraternity. I can't say I'm happy to be here but here I am
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Old 20-09-2014, 16:48   #54
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Re: Which Engine Oil Do You Use (& Why)

i think the oils aint oils thing is correct with the high rpm sporty cars and yanmars and cute lil japanese diesels with and without turbos, which are different from the old oil leaking heavy monster tractor engines. i have a new old leaky not now no more leaks omygods heavy brit tracktor engine . i hope i find some oil leakage before the engine is scared to run, as we all know brit engines MUST leak to properly run......
blowby might be good for sex, but it isnt the sole cause of runaway diesel, as i surprisingly discovered....go figger. if the desk floats and has a decent nice boaty shape to it, it could be an awesome thing, ye htink?? keel vs wheel.... or both.,, make it amphibious.. could be a fun thing....i best like the part where the desk turns into a beautiful viking sailing ship and sails smoothly into the sunrise, everyone wearing the appropriate raybans.....
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Old 20-09-2014, 16:55   #55
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Re: Which Engine Oil Do You Use (& Why)

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i think the oils aint oils thing is correct with the high rpm sporty cars and yanmars and cute lil japanese diesels with and without turbos, which are different from the old oil leaking heavy monster tractor engines.
blowby might be good for sex, but it isnt the sole cause of runaway diesel, as i surprisingly discovered....go figger.
Can't offer any insight for the benefits of blowby but I am now thinking that high end synthetic oils might even be bad for a old oil leaking heavy monster tractor engines .

Probably can certainly say the extra money is not warranted!
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Old 20-09-2014, 17:01   #56
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Re: Which Engine Oil Do You Use (& Why)

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Can't offer any insight for the benefits of blowby but I am now thinking that high end synthetic oils might even be bad for a old oil leaking heavy monster tractor engines .

Probably can certainly say the extra money is not warranted!
i LOVEDit in my honda b=generator, i LOVEDit in my Z car...300 zx turbo, 50 anniv edition.. yumm.... ansd other goo dreasons for the stuff--excellent for the high rpm racing engines... dont know about it in a heavy leaky brit stuff.
prolly only cause i didnt have wealth enough to buy it by the gallon for my leaky beastie. stuff will awaken your need to work...
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Old 20-09-2014, 18:42   #57
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Re: Which Engine Oil Do You Use (& Why)

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While it is intuitive to think that new higher spec. oils must be better, the internet jury is still out and the secondhand evidence from the same "experts" is at the best, conflicting. Shell has been quoted for both sides of the argument .
I'd say thinking they're better might sound intuitive at first but then perhaps isn't. The older engines were never tested fully with these oils, since they didn't exist at the time. So, my intuition tells me that we really don't know and if I had an older engine I'd continue to use the older type oil which was available at the time it was built and was used in it as it was tested. I don't know how the new "advanced" oil will do with the old engine, and I wouldn't want to find out.
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Old 20-09-2014, 18:59   #58
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Re: Which Engine Oil Do You Use (& Why)

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I'd say thinking they're better might sound intuitive at first but then perhaps isn't. The older engines were never tested fully with these oils, since they didn't exist at the time. So, my intuition tells me that we really don't know and if I had an older engine I'd continue to use the older type oil which was available at the time it was built and was used in it as it was tested. I don't know how the new "advanced" oil will do with the old engine, and I wouldn't want to find out.
That's it in a nutshell IMO.

And I reckon most of the oil engineers (and especially oil salesman) don't know either; unfortunately they don't have any skin in the game...
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Old 20-09-2014, 19:04   #59
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Re: Which Engine Oil Do You Use (& Why)

Amsoil Marine Synthetic 15-40, in the Yanmar 4JH4-TE at normal service hours.
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Old 21-09-2014, 07:06   #60
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Re: Which Engine Oil Do You Use (& Why)

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So are the newer API ratings suitable for older engines? I think there is no definitive and authoritative answer.

I think folks can look up some oil factoids. See Service Categories (with emphasis added, ref diesel categories):

API Engine Oil Service Categories

The current and previous API Service Categories are summarized in convenient charts. Vehicle owners should refer to their owner's manuals before consulting these charts. Oils may have more than one performance level. For automotive gasoline engines, the latest engine oil service category includes the performance properties of each earlier category. If an automotive owner's manual calls for an API SJ or SL oil, an API SM oil will provide full protection. For diesel engines, the latest category usually - but not always - includes the performance properties of an earlier category. Service Category API CJ-4 describes oils for use in high-speed four-stroke cycle diesel engines designed to meet 2007 model year on-highway exhaust emission standards as well as for previous model years. These oils are especially effective at sustaining emission control system durability where particulate filters and other advanced aftertreatment systems are used. For more information on API CJ-4 including frequently asked questions, please visit CJ-4 WEBSITE.
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