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Old 08-11-2012, 13:05   #16
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Re: Which Engine?

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Originally Posted by Charlie View Post
Thanks for the comments and I apologize that I didn't mention the type of boat. This boat is a Wauqiez Gladiateur 10m (33 ft). Seems like most people are saying to go for the bigger engine and my main argument against it is $$$$.

Charlie -- given the overall cost of buying and replacing an engine, $500 is chicken feed. It's what I paid for 20 instead of 15 and was an excellent decision.

It isn't just newbies who will be impressed with more horsepower. Experienced sailors will know what it means when they're coming into an inlet in rough seas and a strong outgoing current.
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Old 08-11-2012, 14:43   #17
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Re: Which Engine?

Speed-wise I don't think you'll have that much impact except for a few cases. However, I think there might be some moments where you really appreciate a quicker application of power - like trying to come into a pier against the wind. I just can't see ever saying, "Damn, wish I'd bought the smaller engine."

David's comment about the engine mounts is a big one. If the bigger engine required that and the smaller engine didn't, that would be a big deal.
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Old 08-11-2012, 18:58   #18
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Re: Which Engine?

What is the engine that is in the boat now, and what was originally recommended for that boat? Since you are going to sell the boat in 2 years, your main concern is dollars in for dollars out. Compare the cost of the new 25 horse engine of a differant manufacturer, to the cost of a drop in replacement of the same brand and model. Or even compare the cost of a quality rebuild for the present engine. Modifications cost money. Drop ins save money. Maybe a Yacht Broker should chime in on what is best for you in this circumstance? Best of luck, and please let us know what you decide._____Grant.
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Old 08-11-2012, 19:20   #19
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Re: Which Engine?

A day's labor is too small a price to pay to not get the extra hp.
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Old 08-11-2012, 19:23   #20
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Re: Which Engine?

The only time small is better is if there's not enough (head) room.
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Old 08-11-2012, 19:36   #21
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Re: Which Engine?

G'Day Charlie,

You have already gotten good advice so I won't offer any!

But, say, can I borrow your wife for a few days? (ho,ho)

Cheers,

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Old 08-11-2012, 22:51   #22
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Re: Which Engine?

Changing out the engine bed log is no big deal. First, build a template that has the mounting feet attached at the right places (see the engine diagram for details). Mount a piece of dowel, the size of the shaft, where it would be. Remove the old engine and mounts. Fit the template in place to line the shaft with the dowel. This tells you if you have to lower or raise the bed logs higher or lower than the mount threads allow. Then you can see if the engine mounts will fit atop the original bed logs, or if they can be modified to support the engine mounts somehow. Worst case, chop them out and secure new ones in place. Then clean everything up, surround all the sides with sound-deadening foam, and go for a trial fit. Here are some pics of my changing from a 25 HP Volvo to a 27 HP Yanmar:
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Old 09-11-2012, 00:34   #23
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Re: Which Engine?

Glad to hear your not talking about your Scepter. For a bit I was wondering how you got to 3200 posts.
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Old 09-11-2012, 17:53   #24
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Re: Which Engine?

@ Jim. It makes it easier to sit around and do nothing. (I wish). I guess I could ask her to work five extra days a month and just buy a new boat in a couple of years. But a new boat is no good to a deadman. hee hee hee

@ Roy. Great Pix. We've got the engine pulled already and have measurements. Beta will make custom feet for their engines so that you can just drop the engine in with just adjustment of the mounts.

@ Grant. Volvo stopped making the engine many years ago. I think 25. No parts left for it. Nice new engine makes it easy to sell.

I wonder how many people would know the difference between a 20 and a 25. If the wind gets strong we like to sail. They are sailboats after all.
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Old 09-11-2012, 19:09   #25
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I replaced my engine. The extraneous costs are more then I expected. Think hose ,fittings waterlift etc... I bought the biggest hp that was not turbo charged that fit my engine beds.
The added hp does nothing unless I use it. That means modified/new prop or big alternator. Your shaft needs to be able to manage the added hp and bigger/modified prop. My guess you would well having a tad more hp. You need to look at those other pieces.
I went with a cummins that was marine modified. Not a big choice in my horse power for most. It is naturally aspirated fit the bed and much less then yanmar, beta.. Etc. parts are found on bobcats and mining machines globally. Hope that helps
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:06   #26
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Re: Which Engine?

"Changing out the engine bed log is no big deal. "
Looks like a pretty big job to me! Nice work though...
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Old 10-11-2012, 13:14   #27
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Re: Which Engine?

Roy Ms post is so good that I am going to save it in my files. I do question the No Big Deal, since that job at $80 or $90 per hour at boat yard rates could be a very big pocket book deal. My points in this thread were that changing to another brand of engine could add a lot to the cost, but I can understand the OPs reasoning of replacing an out of production engine. I hope the OP will keep us posted about how this turns out and what the final bill is. It will be interesting.___Best of Luck______Grant.
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Old 10-11-2012, 14:18   #28
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Re: Which Engine?

Sorry guys, but is really isn't rocket science to play with the engine bed. You just have to get past the fear that you can do something wrong, which, as long as you don't cut through the hull, you won't. Make the template of the new engine. All engines provide a dimensional drawing with the detail to allow you to make this template. Remove the old engine by removing the nuts holding the engine mounts to the engine, removing (and labelling) all wiring to the engine. Remove all the hoses, making sure that none of them can bring water into the boat. Lay the template down on the existing bed to see if the existing logs are spaced wide apart to use, or if they are low or high enough. If there is a minor issue, add or subtract some width, or chop (or build) what ever it takes to get the dowel to match where the shaft is. If nothing works, figure out a way to put a pair of parallel bed logs where they need to be. You can use lumber, plywood, or have something welded up and bolted to the bulkheads. Sure, it may take time, but the carpentry skills are elemental, and you will have a much better sense of what your engine room can truly be.

When I did mine, I installed PVC tubing in the bottom of the compartment to allow bilgewater to flow past the engine room, then I foamed in the floor to isolate the engine compartment bilge from the rest of the boat, so spilled oil wouldn't contaminate the rest of the boat. I only had to remove about two inches of vertical height of the existing engine bed log, and I epoxied a couple pieces of plywood vertically on the inside faces to give better support to the engine mounts. I epoxied everything, made all the corners into smooth curves to facilitate cleaning the bilge. It was a fair amount of work, but I work cheap for myself, and I got my money's worth. When I lifted the engine into the aft cabin, via the companionway using the main halyard, I set the engine onto a piece of plywood, which sat on a 2x6 plank spanning the frames of the engine room. After disconnecting the halyard, I could easily slide the engine forward into the engine room compartment, by myself. Then I lowered a chain hoist (I could have just used the halyard, but this allowed me to work alone) to lift the engine off the plank. Now, it just hung there while I placed the engine mounts back on the engine. Slowly lowering the chain hoist, with one hand, I could guide the engine lightly onto the engine bed and maneuver it to the point where it just "kissed" the shaft coupling. Continuing to take some of the load with the chain hoist, I could raise and lower the engine mount nuts to get an almost perfect alignment. The most important measurement was where the bolts or lag screws that hold the engine mounts, would be affixed. For a two hundred sixty pound engine, lag screws into solid beds is sufficient (each lag screw needs only to support less than 50 pounds). Then I reversed the original process, removing the engine so that I could permanently install the engine mounts, then replaced it again.

Making this installation gave me the confidence that I could simply remove the engine if I needed to do any major service, without this being a major worry or cost. It took time to set up, but the actual installation or removal of the engine takes only a couple hours, and a couple friends to crank the halyard, push and pull the engine around in place, and drink the celebratory bottles of bubbling bilgewater that serves as industrial solvent for this operation. And it is so cool when your neighbors see you wheel a brand new engine down the dock, pop it in with no fuss, and then fire it up a couple hours later and motor off for a test run.
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Old 10-11-2012, 14:53   #29
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Re: Which Engine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie View Post
@ Jim. It makes it easier to sit around and do nothing. (I wish). I guess I could ask her to work five extra days a month and just buy a new boat in a couple of years. But a new boat is no good to a deadman. hee hee hee

@ Roy. Great Pix. We've got the engine pulled already and have measurements. Beta will make custom feet for their engines so that you can just drop the engine in with just adjustment of the mounts.

@ Grant. Volvo stopped making the engine many years ago. I think 25. No parts left for it. Nice new engine makes it easy to sell.

I wonder how many people would know the difference between a 20 and a 25. If the wind gets strong we like to sail. They are sailboats after all.
What model Volvo is the existing engine?
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Old 10-11-2012, 16:38   #30
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Re: Which Engine?

Redoing engine beds can be a big deal if there's not much room to move around. For my Yanmar I had to redo it twice. Fortunately I have loads of space.

After The first install I was having vibration problems from the prop shaft. So I installed a Pythondrive, which required a different angle, lower and farther forward. And it didn't help. It ended being that the shaft was too small diameter for the higher torque yanmar so had to goto a larger shaft and stern tube.

But with a little surface planning and an addition to the front, it didn't take too much more work.

The board with the shaft is a pretty good trick. I just laid mine out on paper with the dimensions and angles taken from the prop shaft itself braced in the stern tube.

.
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