Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 22-05-2011, 10:55   #1
Registered User
 
sweetsailing's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Minnesota
Boat: Island Packet 380
Posts: 170
What Constitutes a Rebuild ?

Hi all,

Looking seriously at a particular boat that has a Yanmar 4JH3BE (year 2000 boat) This engine currently has 2780 hours and was reportedly rebuilt at 1700 hours. What we know of the previous owners, they were very meticulous about boat keeping and maintainance.

Based on this information what questions should I be tracking down? So far, here are our thoughts:

1) Why was the engine re-built?

2) Who did the re-build?

3) Obtain records/invoices of what exactly was done in the re-built (what typically constitues a re-build? Is the term used broadly to describe any number of things that could have been done/replaced?)

4) Would a re-build make you want to conduct a separate engine survey?

Any other things I should be thinking about that I haven't stated?

Thanks
__________________

__________________
"I'm the reason the rum's gone"
sweetsailing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2011, 12:12   #2
Registered User
 
Fishspearit's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: FL
Posts: 576
Re: What constitues a "rebuild"

The term 'rebuild' doesn't mean a thing unless it's accompanied with receipts.

It could be anything from 10 minutes with a can of spraypaint, to a full engine rebuild. Everyone has a different definition. The only thing that matters is provable receipts.
__________________

__________________
Fishspearit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2011, 12:49   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
S/V Antares's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Annapolis, Bahamas
Boat: 1983 Gulfstar 36
Posts: 1,249
Images: 1
Re: What constitues a "rebuild"

An "aerosol overhall" ?. My question (and yours to the owner) is why such a reliable engine would need such work at 1700 hrs.
__________________
Will & Muffin
Lucy the dog

"Yes, well.. perhaps some more wine" (Julia Child)
S/V Antares is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2011, 13:02   #4
Registered User
 
avb3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Florida/Alberta
Boat: Lippincott 30
Posts: 9,913
Images: 1
Re: What constitues a "rebuild"

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Antares View Post
An "aerosol overhall" ?. My question (and yours to the owner) is why such a reliable engine would need such work at 1700 hrs.
My guess is that it spent a considerable amount of time idling. Other than a compression test (both wet and dry), I would have the engine oil analysised. That will give you a good indication of the health of the rest of the engine. It's done all the time with big equipment.
__________________
avb3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2011, 14:07   #5
Wayfaring Mariner
 
captain58sailin's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Homer, AK is my home port
Boat: Skookum 53'
Posts: 4,045
Images: 5
Re: What constitues a "rebuild"

AT 1700 hrs, the engine is barely broken in, maybe the PO got some bad advice.
__________________
" Wisdom; is your reward for surviving your mistakes"
captain58sailin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2011, 14:41   #6
Registered User
 
Unicorn Dreams's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Clear Lake Marine Services - Seabrook, Texas
Boat: Gulfstar, Mark II Ketch, 43'
Posts: 2,359
Re: What constitues a "rebuild"

Shouldn't even think about an overhaul until 10,000 hrs or so
__________________
Formerly Santana
The winds blow true,The skies stay blue,
Everyday is a good day for SAILING!!!!
Unicorn Dreams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2011, 16:32   #7
Sponsoring Vendor
 
Tellie's Avatar

Community Sponsor

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hollywood, Fl.
Boat: FP Athena 38' Poerava
Posts: 3,046
Re: What constitues a "rebuild"

If the boat is a serious prospect, pay a good diesel mechanic for a few hours of his time. Then do the same for a good rigger, marine electrician, electronics man, etc. If the surveyor happens to be there at the same time ask him kindly to stay the hell out of their way. As Fishspearit stated, if there are not provable reciepts a claim of a re-build don't mean doodly squat.
Tellie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2011, 16:36   #8
Registered User
 
JiffyLube's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Oceanside, Ca.
Boat: Islander Freeport 36
Posts: 567
Images: 8
Re: What constitues a "rebuild"

A "complete" rebuild will involve tearing down the entire engine, not just rebuilding the top end. I've had truck engines completely rebuilt in the past, and the work will only be as good as the mechanic doing the work. If I was in the situation again of deciding whether to rebuild or re-power new, I'd go with new. As mentioned, receipts will be the only evidence of what kind of rebuild it was.
__________________
JiffyLube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2011, 18:03   #9
Registered User
 
sweetsailing's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Minnesota
Boat: Island Packet 380
Posts: 170
Re: What constitues a "rebuild"

Thanks for all the replies so far. Most definately will be asking about why the re-build was done and will be asking for receipts, etc from the work that was done and details of what work was done. Aside from the receipts, much of this information will be anecdotal at best. Will the engine survey tell me what I really need to know? What advice do you have about locating an appropriate marine mechanic?

I do know this boat was extensively cruised in the caribbean, east coast and pacific to Hawaii from 2003 to approx. 2009. I do know that the re-build occurred during this time period.

This boat is a serious contender and all other items at this point (pre-survey) are not yet raising our eyebrows
__________________
"I'm the reason the rum's gone"
sweetsailing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2011, 19:27   #10
cruiser

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tampa to New York
Boat: Morgan 33 OutIsland, Magic and 33' offshore scott design "Cutting Edge"
Posts: 1,594
Re: What constitues a "rebuild"

There are several questions to ask about a rebuild. A true rebuild will bring all clearances to factory specs. Some shops check clearances and if they are anywhere near the center of the service limits let it go as there is service life left in the parts. When I open an engine I plan on restoring all parts to factory. The labor for engine removal and disassembly make the cost of bearings and machine work pale in comparison. Even with reciepts you dont know the whole story about projected engine life without the clearance numbers that tell the real story.
__________________
forsailbyowner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2011, 20:41   #11
Registered User
 
avb3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Florida/Alberta
Boat: Lippincott 30
Posts: 9,913
Images: 1
Re: What constitues a "rebuild"

Quote:
Originally Posted by forsailbyowner View Post
There are several questions to ask about a rebuild. A true rebuild will bring all clearances to factory specs. ...
Pretty hard to bring worn cylinders to factory specs with out replacing the block. Usually they are sleeved or if bored, over-sized pistons are put in, in my experience.Crankshafts may be turned if a bearing was spun, but that is pretty unusual in most diesels.
__________________
avb3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2011, 20:53   #12
Registered User
 
Unicorn Dreams's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Clear Lake Marine Services - Seabrook, Texas
Boat: Gulfstar, Mark II Ketch, 43'
Posts: 2,359
Re: What constitues a "rebuild"

Mu last engine I resleeved it with the new pistons. All depends on the engine make.
__________________
Formerly Santana
The winds blow true,The skies stay blue,
Everyday is a good day for SAILING!!!!
Unicorn Dreams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-05-2011, 04:36   #13
Registered User
 
Catamount's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Keene, NH
Boat: Island Yachts Peterson 34 GREYHAWK
Posts: 370
Re: What constitues a "rebuild"

If the condition of the engine is an important consideration in the purchase of this boat, wouldn't you want to commission a specialized engine survey regardless of whether there was a "rebuild" in this engine's history?
__________________
Tim Allen
My Boat Projects and Sailing Stories
Sailors for the Sea, a new voice for ocean conservation
Catamount is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2011, 19:39   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2010
Boat: Wauquiez Hood 38
Posts: 130
Re: What Constitutes a Rebuild ?

Sweetsailing,
I see 'your' boat is showing as 'sale pending'. Are you the buyer? If so, have you learned the reason the owner totally rebuilt a 'new' engine... and is there a story the rest of us can learn from?
Good luck, she looks a fine boat.
__________________
Tom1340 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2011, 20:13   #15
cruiser

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tampa to New York
Boat: Morgan 33 OutIsland, Magic and 33' offshore scott design "Cutting Edge"
Posts: 1,594
Re: What constitues a "rebuild"

Quote:
Originally Posted by avb3 View Post
Pretty hard to bring worn cylinders to factory specs with out replacing the block. Usually they are sleeved or if bored, over-sized pistons are put in, in my experience.Crankshafts may be turned if a bearing was spun, but that is pretty unusual in most diesels.
A proper rebuild can include oversize pistons and still be in factory specs. The specs would be referring to cylinder taper, skirt clearance, out of round, ring gap, ring groove clearance etc....
__________________

__________________
forsailbyowner is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
rebuild

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rebuild or Re-Engine Saltyhog Engines and Propulsion Systems 32 30-01-2011 22:25
Repower vs Rebuild: Which, and Why? sailorboy1 Engines and Propulsion Systems 20 14-02-2010 17:06
Rebuild NautiHippie Engines and Propulsion Systems 11 01-02-2010 06:11
SL windlass rebuild Islandmike Construction, Maintenance & Refit 11 19-02-2008 11:58
After rebuild - running in sildene Engines and Propulsion Systems 20 16-08-2007 00:41



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 14:00.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.