Westerbeke 8 generator will not start

[woodyapex]

So here's where I am now ( thanks for all you help guys by the way )
I still don't think the soliniod is working correct . But at the minute I'm going to buy a brand new one.
But after pulling the heater plugs. I've found out the last two g plugs are dead I'm hoping that's good news . The first was definitely not ( bye Ek they are get hot!)
I've now changed for new , oil pressure sensor , and the radiator temperature sensor.
The exhaust one . The actuator . And the filters . So I can't think of anything else until I get the new soliniod on .
I might add I've got the injector pipes off and the fuel pump seems to be working well .
Long shot but is there any one in the Florida keys that might have heater plugs?. Today lol I need 3 .
Thanks again keep all the info coming and thoughts .
Yes I have the manual but the trouble shooting guide is very basic .
Woody

[brantleychuck]

So when you crank the engine ,can you see (whatever mechanism, ) most likely a electric solenoid that pulls the throttle open. Do you see it open the throttle? Or while having someone crank the engine pull the throttle open manually. You may need to remove the solenoid to do this.

Right now you are doing a bit of troubleshooting but you have also begun to replace parts randomly which is expensive and so many time fruitless. It's pretty warm where you are, the engine should start without the glow plugs working. At the very least you should be getting lots of smoke( un burnt diesel) coming out the exhaust while cranking. This would confirm fuel delivery to combustion chamber. Did you pull a injector and crank engine to confirm fuel delivery to combustion chamber? Remember, if the throttle is closed no fuel will spray out nozzle.

Good luck


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[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by woodyapex

Yes I have the manual but the trouble shooting guide is very basic .

I have a technical manual - it's 12 Mb, so if you want it, PM me an email address and I'll send it.
Here's the bit they have on glow plugs.

GLOW PLUGS

The glow plug is a small heater installed in each pre-combustion

chamber. They run off the engine starting battery and

become red hot when activated.

The glow plugs are wired through the preheat solenoid.

When PREHEAT is pressed at the control panel this solenoid

should "click" on and the glow plug should begin to get hot.

Glow plugs can be checked by unscrewing and holding them

against a good ground (engine block) and turning them on.

The tip should glow red hot. You can also use an ammeter to

test the power drain (8 to 9 amps per plug) or an ohmmeter

to test resistance (1.1 to 1.2 ohms).

A

WARNING: These glow plugs will become very hot

to the touch. Be careful not to burn your fingers when

testing plugs.

Reinstall the plugs in the engine and test them again. The

plugs should get very hot (at the terminal end) within 20 to

25 seconds. If the plugs don't heat up quickly, check for a

short circuit.

When installing the glow plugs, use anti-seize compound on

the threads.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Xthewater

I believe the glow plugs are wired parallel because of not when one fails none will work.

While they're technically parallel, the positive side is a daisy chain - if the wire between #1 and #2 is broke, 3 won't get any juice either.

[woodyapex]

Great
I realise changing out parts could be expencive but now at the end of the day all the service parts are new and it will be a bit more piece of mind when it's running .

But there is a "purple wire " from the soliniod , when pre heat was pushed it did not put power to the heater plugs . Now does that purple wire go via another switch before it goes to the heater plugs .
To confirm even though I put the soliniod end of the wire direct to live the glow plug end did not have power .
And two of the glow plugs are definitely dead , I've tested them .
Is it sounding like injectors at fault here . I've not had them out yet as I know how hard it can be sometimes and a broken one could prove very bad .
Thanks

[Lodesman]

There should be a wiring diagram in your operators manual. It should be a 12 gauge purple and red wire from the solenoid to the glow plugs. That's fed from a 12ga red wire that comes from the 20A breaker. The purple and white 14ga wire comes from the preheat switch, and the remaining wire (red 14ga) should go through a 10A breaker to connect downstream with the 14ga purple wire that supplies power to the lift pump and fuel solenoid - if your engine has had the modification advised in the service bulletin I posted, this wire connects directly to the fuel solenoid.

[TheThunderbird]

Oops.. it looked like you had pulled out the plugs, yes... but not the injectors....

Can you check what gets out the exhaust?

Water and unburnt fuel? Or, just water!?

Any smoke? And which color?

We presume that cranking didnt produce any detonation...yet...

We should also consider that corrosion may have developed inside the engine if unused for long....

[brantleychuck]

WOODY. Is the throttle opening up as you crank? This MUST BE CONFIRMED VISUALLY.


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[perdunulpart]

have you try to crack a little bit the injector line on the injector one at the time to see if fuel is going there?your glow plug are needed near freezing point,does your air inlet open or close ,when the engine is cranking you should see white smoke ,did you try out whit a bit of starting fluid ,i no glow plug don't like this,just remove the power line for them before using it ,can you hade a picture of your fuel pump ?

[perdunulpart]

have you try to jump the oil safety switch ?just ground the plug to the engine block

[Steve Bean]

If you try starting fluid, spray it into the air intake while cranking, just the tiniest bit of a spray, without using the glow plugs. If you remove injectors to test spray pattern, be sure not to spray fuel on your fingers or any skin; it can penetrate the skin and that is bad.

[woodyapex]

[QUOTE=brantleychuck;1998822]WOODY. Is the throttle opening up as you crank? This MUST BE CONFIRMED VISUALLY.

The arm is definitely opening . But I've not had chance to look at fumes yet . I'll also get an injector ou , in the morning .
Thanks

[woodyapex]

Just back to the initial prognosis from an expert , he said it was exhaust elbow , and it's not but is there anything just before that elbow that could cause this .
While cranking while he was here it early started .
He just stopped and said exhaust .?

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Xthewater

There's another way to check. Disconnect the power rail from each and put VOM from top of plug to block. I forget the value it should have, 6 ohms or lower, if very high then the plug is bad. You can use the known good one for comparison.

Generally:
Metal Glow Plugs have a resistance of 5 Ohms, or less.
Ceramic Glow Plugs have a resistance of 1 Ohm, or less.

[River Cruiser]

Originally Posted by woodyapex

The lift pump works perfect , but the heater plugs, only the first ( left hand one ) is getting warm / hot . I don't think the solaniod is broke but is there something that cancels the solaniods actions if alls not well .?
Thanks Woody

The 3 glow plugs should all work at the same time, if only one is getting hot the others are bad, shorted out, it will not start unless they are all working, they need to be replaced. Do you have a reliable multimeter to check circuits and voltage? The owners manual says not to energize the glow plugs for more than 10 or 20 seconds, I do not remember the exact time but it's not long, I do a slow 10 count with the preheat on before I start spinning it with the starter and the preheat must be held on until it is running. Holding it on will bypass the safety shutdown circuit until the oil pressure is up. Have you verified that the fuel solenoid is locking into the full on position? I think if all 3 glow plugs are working and the fuel lever is pulled completely on it'll start. Pull out the bad glow plugs and take them to a auto parts store or a tractor dealer (Caterpillar uses this engine in small excavators) they should be able to match them. Good luck


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