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Old 14-12-2009, 17:41   #1
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Exclamation Westerbeke 27 Seized - HELP! SOS!

Against all better judgment, I let my engine go 6 months + between starts. In that time period we've rewired Illusion, applied new paint on the deck and a whole host of other things but never once turned the key and hit the ignition.

Horror story commences........

After we got the starting circuit hooked back up, went to go start the motor -- and just got a clunk, removed the starter and jumped it -- it works great, it's the big beautiful red westerbeke that doesn't (hoping flattery will get me somewhere), I've got a 2' breaker bar on the crankshaft pulley and can't make it budge an inch, or even a millimeter so far as I can tell.

I removed the valve case and moved each of the valve springs manually and they each moved normally and didn't appear to be stuck. Checked the oil -- oil level normal, didn't seem watery etc. Then removed the fuel injectors and poured Marvel Mystery Oil into the void in the case where the injectors normally go (not sure of the term...injector holes?)

I've pour about 1.5 quarts of MMO in the injector holes, basically only a little goes in before it pools (it's a 4 cylinder engine). I did find if I opened the second valve (the more aft valve) of every pair I can pour more into each cylinder -- not sure what that means, should I keep the valves open and pour in MMO/PB Blaster until no more will go in or is opening that valve sending the MMO into the exhaust or something?

This all started on Thurs...it's been 5 days, the message boards with other seized diesels say be patient, it will eventually come free but it's december, we were supposed to be sailing by now and I'm not feeling so patient

Should I remove the head and pour MMO directly into the cylinders (head gasket is 180...not too much, but I'm currently unemployed trying to go cruising) and try to move them more? Should I remove the starter and try to turn the fly wheel manually instead of using the starter to do it? What else can I try? Is their a patron saint for seized diesels?

Any and all advice appreciated, the good stuff will be applied

Thanks!

Brian
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Old 14-12-2009, 18:03   #2
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i can't believe your motor seized in 6 mths. unless you had a prob. before and didn't
you know about it. i would pull the injectors and see if you have hydraulic lock. if you do have a seized engine i would think that your head gasket ios gone or there is a crack in one of the cyl. walls and fluid has gotten into that cyl. and seized that hole. this would make me think that the head gasket is gone(don't know why) just gut feeling.
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Old 14-12-2009, 18:08   #3
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First things first....
I think you should start by removing the exh hose from the engine and make sure that no water has made it way up into there (also lets you see how much oil you've filled the muffler with).
If this was me I'd pull the head, just so I could see what the cylinders looked like. At that point you can even gently tap with a piece of soft endgrain to free the offending piston.
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Old 14-12-2009, 18:09   #4
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I tried turning the motor with the valves open and couldn't get it to turn at all (according to calder's diesel book that's the best way to get water out of the cylinders)

so I'm not suspecting hyrdolock, also no sign of water in the oil, I already pulled the injectors (that's where I'm currently pouring the MMO)

Thanks -- sounds like one vote for pulling the head
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Old 14-12-2009, 18:11   #5
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As an added bonus you'll know your valves have been lapped in and you have a new head gasket!!
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Old 14-12-2009, 18:34   #6
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Sailmonkey: I'm confused about "removing the exh hose from the engine"

is that the exhaust hose? want to make sure I pull the right thing

Thanks!
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Old 14-12-2009, 18:41   #7
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Yes, that's the exhaust hose. That will right away confirm or deny that you moisture has come from the outside and stuck the cylinder that sat with the exh valve open.
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Old 14-12-2009, 19:36   #8
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Diesel fuel and oil is a good cheap penetrant.

Six months of non running has probably caused moisture to rust one of the rings.

Moisture coming in thru an open exhaust valve.

Removing the head and using a block of wood while someone else holds steady pressure on the bar may work to free up the engine.....the downside is that you may find that a ring has broken.....

I have a guy that does my engines....he has all the machine shop tools and is adept at resurrecting engines....he does a lot of antique auto, boat and tractor engines....

That is the kind of guy you want to find. Try to find a machine shop and talk to them......Few yards these days rebuild engines...they get sent out.
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Old 14-12-2009, 19:41   #9
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if anyone knows any diesel guru's in Charleston that will pity a poor, young and slightly mentally handicapped <future> cruiser be sure to pass on the tip

otherwise it's me and my mechanic friend trying to work our magic!

Thanks for the reply CE
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Old 14-12-2009, 19:59   #10
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1Did you try to rotate the engine in both directions?
2That engine (Mitsubishi 1.5 liter) had some early piston issues. Check with W-beke for the serial numbers
3 The flex plate between the trans and engine could have rusted to the flywheel. If no water in the cyls this is a likely issue (And easy)
4 If you got some water in the cyls during the layup the rings could be seized.
5 A head gasket is not too much $ . Get the engine # and buy one from a tractor dealer as this base egine was used in many industrial applications. Pull the head off and you will get a good picture of the issue

Do not get discouraged, this might be a simple issue. Diagnostics is a zen thing Sit back and have a few beers and analyize each finding. Sherlock Holmes it.
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Old 14-12-2009, 20:07   #11
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Do not mix beer and wrenches you get "skun" knucles, broken studs and tool loss (from tools being thrown)
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Old 15-12-2009, 08:38   #12
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Flex plate is bolted to flywheel with splines in center for input shaft of trans. Have heard of plates throwing a spring and stopping a lehman diesel that was idling and manuevering into a slip. Mechanic proclaimed the eng had seized and needed to be rebuilt. As they were dismantling eng to remove it piece by piece found spring and removed . Magically eng was once again free. So unless you were targeted by "Murphy's Law" and the flex plate broke and jammed all when you last shut down the eng it is doubtfull that is your problem. Chief's advice about oil spot on, the thinner the better (diesel fuel). If you take off the head and find you did have moisture and it did rust, before putting it back in service consider honing the cylinder to clean it up. Rings are made of a more nobel metal than the block and being harder will pit less. Good luck
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Old 15-12-2009, 08:43   #13
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Antares,

If the flex plate was locked to the transmission would I be able to turn the prop shaft manually? I was able to today.....

The engine # should be on the engine somewhere for getting tractor parts right?

I removed the starter today and tried to "jimmy" the flywheel in both directions -- no movement

I started removing the head last night...got the intake manifold off but the exhaust manifold is proving to be a lot trickier, will work on it more this afternoon


Thanks for all the suggestions
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Old 15-12-2009, 16:47   #14
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got the head off today.....not looking good, 4th cylinder has lots of carbon and corrosion -- felt like 30 grit sand paper, I didn't try to free the pistons, getting the head off was enough. Looks like I'm facing a rebuild or new engine

Antares, I found the mitsubishi d2350 tractor -- looks similar, but I can't really tell -- any good place to cross reference the westerbeke/mitsubishi engines?
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Old 15-12-2009, 18:18   #15
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Yup.. This is ugly. It sounds like raw water entered # 4 and more from the exhaust side, Perhaps a bad or corroded mixing elbow. I believe the 27/30/33 westerbeke is the old K3A base block. The Mitsubishi serial numbers are on the flat surface next to the injection pump on the Stb, side forward, I would try soaking the piston tops with PB Blaster and use a wooden dowell and hammer to gently introduce a vibration Not too hard but a lot of tapping as this will sometimes break the rust up a bit at a time. A long breaker bar on the front pully nut back and forth. You have more time than money so spend a few hours / days trying to save this situation All is not lost! Yet
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