Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-08-2010, 20:58   #1
Eternal Member
 
Chief Engineer's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: North of Baltimore
Boat: Ericson 27 & 18' Herrmann Catboat
Posts: 3,798
Weld Repair of Yanmar Pan ?

Has anyone here ever had that experience?

I am getting mixed opinions from welders up here....
__________________

__________________
Chief Engineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2010, 22:04   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: australia
Posts: 467
Gday Chief,
Have only welded with success oil pans on bench not it situ. Fitted double plates over corroded areas & drain sockets for ease of oil draining,early times using gas and bronze, we now have a tom-terrific silicone bronze mig that makes the job sooo-- easy . Preparation, degreasing, buffing etc is paramount.
In situ probably possible with care using mig & short weld runs cooling with wet rag in between runs if temp is kept low hopefully oil sludging should not happen. Have seen pans on the job that have successfully been welded in situ with out any obvious problems.
__________________

__________________
shakey doug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2010, 23:26   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Engineer View Post
Has anyone here ever had that experience?

I am getting mixed opinions from welders up here....
I assume it's a steel pan. That really get's me why any marine motor manufacturer would use a steel sheet metal oil pan.

I lost a motor back in the 80's because the oil pan turned to a sieve one winter, and the damn oil pressure alarm quit working too. You could hold the pan up to the sun and it was like the stars at night.

Don't try welding! Just buy new, it's safer!!!!
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2010, 04:34   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,901
need more inf Chief
__________________
never monday is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2010, 08:42   #5
Mooderator
 
capngeo's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Key West & Sarasota
Boat: Cal 28 "Happy Days"
Posts: 4,211
Images: 12
Send a message via Yahoo to capngeo Send a message via Skype™ to capngeo
I have 3 Yanmars; all have aluminum pans. I have been certified for over 30 years and weld a lot of stuff. That said, oil soaked aluminum is a PITA to weld! One would think the heat of welding would remove the oil, but not everything is burnt, and the residue will float through the weld leaving pin holes.

If I have to make a repair to oil soaked aluminum, I degrease, machine the joint (no sandblasting or grinding as those present their own negative issues), and weld hotter than normal. I'll also re-puddle the weld several times with either stainless brushing or machining between each pass. Don't expect the cosmetics of virgin metal, and take care to identify and fix any stress cracks in the weld area.... they can be hard to see unaided!
__________________
Any fool with a big enough checkbook can BUY a boat; it takes a SPECIAL type of fool to build his own! -Capngeo
capngeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2010, 16:49   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gloucester, MA
Boat: CS 36t
Posts: 387
Yes, you can weld it but it may not be the best choice. Why does it need welding in the first place? Is it cracked for some reason or is it corroded? What is the material?

Welding them in place is quite difficult although it is successfully done on cars from time to time since they tend to have better access. Once you have lifted the engine, you can usually get the pan off so you may as well fully replace it. Cleaning metal, especially aluminum, so that you can weld it will be a real pain.

Unfortunately, the answer is it depends on what you want to get out of it. If you are not looking for a long term solution, it would be fine but chances are, replacement would be wiser. Plenty of old farmyard machinery is running around with the blocks held together with JB weld and it works fine for them but isn't something that they can really count on.
__________________
klem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2010, 17:50   #7
Eternal Member
 
Chief Engineer's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: North of Baltimore
Boat: Ericson 27 & 18' Herrmann Catboat
Posts: 3,798
We have decided to get a new pan.......I agree with the oil contamination part......New Pan? Close to 600 buckaroos.
__________________
Chief Engineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2010, 17:58   #8
Eternal Member
 
Chief Engineer's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: North of Baltimore
Boat: Ericson 27 & 18' Herrmann Catboat
Posts: 3,798
Ok, you are asking what happened. The oil dipstick on the Yanmar 3JH was cracked and leaking. Prior to my getting there, attempts were made to get the banjotype bolt off....no joy. When I got there, any wrench, socket, vise grip, small pipe wrench would not grab, as the head was deteriorated with no "square edges"...the wrenches et.all would slide up and off.

I attempted to shock the bolt head with a chisel.....on the fourth crack....the fitting and part of the pan cracked off. I wasn't using a big hammer....and I have got some "OMIGOD" ones.

7 hours later....(the next day) I had the pan off...more rusted, rounded bolts. The pan is severely pitted.....it has been in water for some time in the past and electrolysis has "done its' thing"

I hate it when this kinda stuff happens.....when you try all the avenues.....and nothing works. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
__________________
Chief Engineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2010, 21:23   #9
Moderator Emeritus
 
David M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay
Boat: research vessel
Posts: 10,152
What is Yanmar thinking?

For less than $600 you could probably get one custom fabricated out of stainless steel.
__________________
David

Life begins where land ends.
David M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2010, 22:02   #10
Registered User
 
Stillraining's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Puget Sound
Boat: Irwin 41 CC Ketch
Posts: 2,876
How about lining the inside with something like epoxy after a good degreasing and bead blasting?...If its only the dip stick tube that's the real problem...isit that up near the flange edge?...

But even if its all thinned out Weld it and line the whole pan...I don't think it could separate off in chunks that way.
__________________
"Go simple, go large!".

Relationships are everything to me...everything else in life is just a tool to enhance them.
Stillraining is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2010, 07:42   #11
Mooderator
 
capngeo's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Key West & Sarasota
Boat: Cal 28 "Happy Days"
Posts: 4,211
Images: 12
Send a message via Yahoo to capngeo Send a message via Skype™ to capngeo
From the sounds of it, the hourly rate expended in the R&R exceeds the value of the pan.... Why-oh-why would one put anything less than new back on?

That said, if the pan sits in bilge water I would coat the new one with a layer of coal tar or epoxy before re-installing!
__________________
Any fool with a big enough checkbook can BUY a boat; it takes a SPECIAL type of fool to build his own! -Capngeo
capngeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2010, 17:27   #12
Registered User
 
Stillraining's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Puget Sound
Boat: Irwin 41 CC Ketch
Posts: 2,876
Quote:
Originally Posted by capngeo View Post
From the sounds of it, the hourly rate expended in the R&R exceeds the value of the pan.... Why-oh-why would one put anything less than new back on?

That said, if the pan sits in bilge water I would coat the new one with a layer of coal tar or epoxy before re-installing!
Hmmm...Lets see...

De-greasing...my solvent tank..free...20.min
Bead blasting...my blast cabnit...free...30 min
Me welding it...Barrow my buddy's tig welder....rod 2.00..30 min.
Epoxy...less then 20.00 ( if this would work)..two coats 20min each

600.00
- 22.00
___________
$578.00 savings.... admittedly I have an advantage at getting some of this.

( Taxes on 600.00 more then covers electricity, and wear and depreciation usage cost of my equipment...buy my buddy a half rack of his favorite beer for use of his welder...help him drink it while I'm there welding it up..so I'm not counting that ...

My time of about two hours actual work is saving 90.00 per hour so I don't count that either..

Would it work?...Should IMHO.

New is good though, if its for a customer or your flush with cash..

Benifits...

1) Done and back on the engine in 2 days
2) cheap
3) you know it fits and all the holes line up...the drain plug is on the correct side...and forgoing all those other replacement part headaches we have all encountered.
4) Enjoyed beers with your buddy..."legally" as far as the wife is concerned...

Risks:

1) It dosest work very long and starts leaking anyway.
2) Have to pull it off again and buy the new one...
3) Consume way more beer.
__________________
"Go simple, go large!".

Relationships are everything to me...everything else in life is just a tool to enhance them.
Stillraining is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2010, 19:53   #13
Mooderator
 
capngeo's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Key West & Sarasota
Boat: Cal 28 "Happy Days"
Posts: 4,211
Images: 12
Send a message via Yahoo to capngeo Send a message via Skype™ to capngeo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillraining View Post
Hmmm...Lets see...

De-greasing...my solvent tank..free...20.min
Bead blasting...my blast cabnit...free...30 min
Me welding it...Barrow my buddy's tig welder....rod 2.00..30 min.
Epoxy...less then 20.00 ( if this would work)..two coats 20min each

600.00
- 22.00
___________
$578.00 savings.... admittedly I have an advantage at getting some of this.

( Taxes on 600.00 more then covers electricity, and wear and depreciation usage cost of my equipment...buy my buddy a half rack of his favorite beer for use of his welder...help him drink it while I'm there welding it up..so I'm not counting that ...

My time of about two hours actual work is saving 90.00 per hour so I don't count that either..

Would it work?...Should IMHO.

New is good though, if its for a customer or your flush with cash..

Benifits...

1) Done and back on the engine in 2 days
2) cheap
3) you know it fits and all the holes line up...the drain plug is on the correct side...and forgoing all those other replacement part headaches we have all encountered.
4) Enjoyed beers with your buddy..."legally" as far as the wife is concerned...

Risks:

1) It dosest work very long and starts leaking anyway.
2) Have to pull it off again and buy the new one...
3) Consume way more beer.
I was referring to the R&R (Removal and Reinstallation) labor...

BTW bead blasting, solvent tanks and aluminum welding are not a good mix
__________________
Any fool with a big enough checkbook can BUY a boat; it takes a SPECIAL type of fool to build his own! -Capngeo
capngeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2010, 20:19   #14
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by capngeo View Post
I was referring to the R&R (Removal and Reinstallation) labor...

BTW bead blasting, solvent tanks and aluminum welding are not a good mix
The Chief didn't say it was aluminum, just rusted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief E.
7 hours later....(the next day) I had the pan off...more rusted, rounded bolts.
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2010, 21:10   #15
Eternal Member
 
Chief Engineer's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: North of Baltimore
Boat: Ericson 27 & 18' Herrmann Catboat
Posts: 3,798
Coroded "aluminum" or other kind of white metal.
__________________

__________________
Chief Engineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
yanmar

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
J-B Weld on Aluminum ? unbusted67 Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 12 26-02-2017 04:43
Epoxy Repair for Oil Pan / Sump zoof98 Engines and Propulsion Systems 25 25-09-2012 21:28
Perkins Prima 50 Oil Pan Surf City Engines and Propulsion Systems 3 07-06-2010 17:35
Spreader Weld lockie Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 3 14-05-2010 18:38



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:48.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.