washer or no washer???

[Lady Diane]

I am about to begin to replace the valve springs in my Volvo Penta TAMD 40 engine. I have only a parts book to go by and it does not show a washer under the spring. However, a local Volvo mechanic says to use one and has given me some. Does anyone have an opinion about this? I would think that if it should be there, it would be shown in the breakdown in the parts book.

help help!!!

[imagine2frolic]

I cannot give you the answer to use, or not to use....lololol, but sometimes a mechanic has wee bit of wisdom that did not come out of the factory. Hopefully some one will come along with Volvo experience soon........

[Stranded Mariner]

And sometimes the manual or parts book is also not up to date with regard to certain modifications that have been introduced.

[Alan Wheeler]

I can't answer if that particular model requires or does not, but the use of a washer will not affect the operation or performance in anyway. So using a washer is OK. The washer is to reduce wear between the very hard valve spring and the much softer cast head material. I would say that if the Volvo guy said fit, then fit. You certainly won't have any operating issue.

[Celestialsailor]

Wait a second Guy's!!! You are forgetting that the valve travel is dictated by the cam. Most good engine designers will judge the valve spring travel within .015" to maybe .040". This is called distance from coil bind. It increases efficiency as well as maximizes HP. If the washer was too thick. it would coil bind before the cam had finished it's travel. If you want to see real engine damage, that's a good way to do it. The cam could break, the engine case could fail under that load, cam chain snapping, pushrod bending. The list goes on.
I think we need to be carefull what we suggest is ok not being mechanics. I would consult a Volvo engine builder or two before throwing extra parts in an engine.

[never monday]

Originally Posted by Lady Diane

I am about to begin to replace the valve springs in my Volvo Penta TAMD 40 engine. I have only a parts book to go by and it does not show a washer under the spring. However, a local Volvo mechanic says to use one and has given me some. Does anyone have an opinion about this? I would think that if it should be there, it would be shown in the breakdown in the parts book.

help help!!!

he's using the washer as a quick fix for what her perceives as a weak valve spring. Adding the washer would increase spring tension and seat pressure of the valve. I'd leave it out.

[mike d.]

thank you celestialsailor for that, you took my thunder. as celestial said don't do anything like that until you get first hand advise from a volvo-penta mech., dealer or better yet consult with them directly and get names and save the info to protect yourself if something should go wrong (as with adding the washers.) when i built hot rods we used washers/spacers to make sure all the springs were the same height and had the same resistance under load. not all springs reqired spacing, so be careful

[never monday]

Originally Posted by mike d.

as celestial said don't do anything like that until you get first hand advise from a volvo-penta mech., dealer or better yet consult with them directly and get names and save the info to protect yourself if something should go wrong (as with adding the
washers.

it's statements like the one above that make me not wnat to give out FREE wisdom and tech help.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by mike d.

thank you celestialsailor for that, you took my thunder. as celestial said don't do anything like that until you get first hand advise from a volvo-penta mech., dealer or better yet consult with them directly and get names and save the info to protect yourself if something should go wrong (as with adding the washers.) when i built hot rods we used washers/spacers to make sure all the springs were the same height and had the same resistance under load. not all springs reqired spacing, so be careful

Yes...I did not want to elaborate on this but I use to race large motorcycles and we use to 'match the springs' as you have pointed out and create the maximum valve spring tention to stop valve float. I would take a Triumph engine that normally had 45 hp.(if that) and try to get 75-80hp. out of it. Those were my crazier days. Racing a 1/2 mile oval track without brakes.
My main point is we have to be careful what we say in these forums if we do not have the expertise in matters. I would never tell someone how to enter a certain port if I had never been there myself. I get a lot of great information in these threads but I usually ask many sources first.

[Alan Wheeler]

like that until you get first hand advise from a volvo-penta mech.,

I thought the guy was a Volvo mech.
The washer I imagine being used is a very thin almost "shim" type washer. I commonly find them on engines, especially if the head is alloy. Using specific tolerance shims for setting spring tension, uniformity and reducing valve bounce is a totaly different scenario completely, used in high performance engines, and should not be confused with this situation.
Pat has a lot of experiance with these engines and I would say follow his recomendation.
However, I am a little confused. When rebuilding and engine, replacing the springs is normal practice. So using a washer to give more spring tension is not a done practice. I would be asking the Volvo Mech for new springs.
Lady Diane, could you give us a little more info on why you are replacing the springs please. Is this a rebuild, or have you encountered a broken spring or????

[Lady Diane]

Regarding the spring question, I am replacing all the springs because they have been breaking one by one. Upon furthur questioning of the mechanic who said to use the washers, he now says he was looking at a manual for a later model Volvo. And ot an "authorized" Volvo mechanic but has worked on many over the years Since I am out of the US, I could not access a shop manual, although I have had one sent to my home for future issues although it is said to be just a "specs book"..... I still have not seen a real shop manual for this old engine.

The exhaust problem I have has caused an occasional back up of water into the engine and most likely is the culprit in the breaking springs.

By the way, I am appreciative of your comments and suggestions as I am a woman alone trying to trouble shoot an engine and other issues and I would rather be sailing, cooking or playing dominos!!!! Or at least cleaning the stainless!

[Alan Wheeler]

No the exhaust problem will not cause a spring to break. It can do much worse to other components though. Like bend conrods and break pistons and other rather serious results. The spring breaking issue is due to age. Springs work harden and stress crack over time. They are in a very harsh environment. A lot of movement and heat and cold etc. Whenever an engine has an over haul, it is good practice to replace the springs.

[David M]

Originally Posted by imagine2frolic

I cannot give you the answer to use, or not to use....lololol, but sometimes a mechanic has wee bit of wisdom that did not come out of the factory. Hopefully some one will come along with Volvo experience soon........

I agree, good mechanics do know more than the factory. Good mechanics have to fix the mistakes and shortcomings of those who sit behind a desk all day designing engines using Autocad.

[mike d.]

never monday i did not make the comment to offend you. i believe we are all putting our 2 cents worth in as to experiences past. please accept my apology!

[never monday]

Originally Posted by mike d.

never monday i did not make the comment to offend you. i believe we are all putting our 2 cents worth in as to experiences past. please accept my apology!

is not an insult.
I speaks loudly of;
better document, because what I've been told in good faith might have been wrong and I didn't check it out. So I should sue everyone involved. because I didn't do my homework.

that's an attitude all to common in todays society. It also makes me careful in what I say.