Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 17-02-2016, 19:56   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2014
Boat: Dolphin 460 Catamaran
Posts: 24
Unhappy Volvo Penta Rebuild Woes - Any Ideas?

A string of errors led to our Volvo Penta MD2040D overheating and fusing a piston ring. We thought we found a good mechanic in Miami to fix it, but they managed to break more things on it than they fixed. Yesterday they finally got it working and we thought that was the end of it. We happily motored out of the marina and crossed to Bimini today.

Unfortunately, about 3 hours into the trip, the low pressure warning alarm blipped on for a second and the gauge was also reading low (in the 15-20psi range). We immediately stopped the engine and went to investigate and we found 2 things: First, there was a diesel leak from somewhere around the injection pump area. Second, the oil level is reading way too high - about an inch past the 'full' notch. The fuel leak doesn't worry me too much - should (hopefully!) be easy to find and fix, but the oil was not reading as overfull when we left this morning, so that means something (diesel or coolant) is getting in there?

The work itself was a full engine rebuilt - they took it out of the boat, replaced all the main bearings, gaskets, piston sleeves+pistons, etc. The injectors were serviced as well. When they reinstalled the engine it wouldn't start because the injection pump wasn't delivering high pressure fuel - so that was taken out and rebuilt as well. That didn't fix the problem, because the problem was a broken spring on the internal stop lever linkage to provide fuel to the injection pump. In order to do that, they had to disassemble the whole throttle assembly and it was a pretty rushed job - and something went wrong that wasn't obvious at first.

So, my first question is this: what could be going wrong here?

My second question is this: who knows someone in the Bahamas who is competent/reliable/honest and can get it fixed? We can't return to florida because of sales tax reasons, and I don't even want to look at the guys who did the work ever again. It should probably be mentioned that we're a sail catamaran so we can get to Freeport or Nassau or wherever if we're smart and careful about it with one good engine and our sails.
__________________

__________________
cainiao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2016, 20:39   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Upper right-hand corner of Iowa
Boat: Newport 30 MK III
Posts: 57
Images: 5
Re: Volvo Penta Rebuild Woes - Any Ideas?

Others will come along to help, I'm sure, but this will get you started.

This is a link to a .pdf of the Perkins Perama M30, the engine that your 2040 is based upon.


http://wilfredmacdonald.com/parts/perkins.pdf

Look at the 'fuel feed pump', also called the lift pump on 4-18.




You probably have one like the left image.

This pump has a diaphragm that is used to pump fuel from the fuel tank to the injection pump. When this diaphragm is punctured diesel fuel can be pumped into the crankcase of the engine. This will count for the 'over-full' level and when the lube oil is diluted by diesel fuel the viscosity is reduced. The diesel fuel 'thins out' the lube oil in the crankcase.

This engine is used in lots of shore-side applications, generators, pumps, forklifts, lots of places. Look for a place that sells Perkins industrial/agricultural parts.

Check for bearing damage by looking for any metal particles inside the 'can' of the oil filter. Take the filter off the engine and puncture the filter by driving a punch downward through the center opening where the filter screws on to the engine. Catch the oil the drains out of the filter in a shop towel. Any metal shards in the oil filter mean that you have damaged the bearings. No fragments? Fill the engine with new oil, put on the new filter and lift pump, go sailing.

Good luck
__________________

__________________
Some of what you might have heard may be true.
guyfromiowa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2016, 22:25   #3
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Boat: Boatless Again
Posts: 4,335
Re: Volvo Penta Rebuild Woes - Any Ideas?

You have diesel leaking into your engine oil. If the lift pump diaphragm is OK, then the most likely next candidate is a leaking seal on the injection pump. If it is the injection pump, you will need to have it shipped back to the US, or wait until somewhere like Puerto Rico or the USVI.
__________________
donradcliffe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2016, 07:37   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 608
Re: Volvo Penta Rebuild Woes - Any Ideas?

As mentioned by earlier posters, your engine is "making oil". It is either getting fuel, coolant or sea water into the oil. Coolant or sea water are readily apparent because the oil will be milky, but fuel will just dilute the oil and it won't have the milkshake appearance.

Most likely you have fuel dilution occurring, and as mentioned, this can come from a leak in the lift pump or the high pressure injection pump, as both can leak into the crankcase. If someone "rebuilt" the injection pump, that might be a fruitful place to look first. It's also possible to have fuel wash down from a bad injector, but that's unlikely if the engine is running well.

Your 2040 engine is based on the Perkins/ISM 103-15 series engine. This is in the same family as the Perkins M30, but the M30 displaces .95 liters and the 2040 displaces 1.5 liters.

DougR
__________________
DougR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2016, 07:45   #5
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,062
Re: Volvo Penta Rebuild Woes - Any Ideas?

Be very careful with fuel in the oil, besides the obvious lack of lubrication, the dilution can get so bad that the engine begins consuming it's oil supply as fuel and it will "run away" and the only way to stop it is to cut off the air supply.
A run away Diesel is a scary thing.

__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2016, 07:46   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Upper right-hand corner of Iowa
Boat: Newport 30 MK III
Posts: 57
Images: 5
Re: Volvo Penta Rebuild Woes - Any Ideas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougR View Post
As mentioned by earlier posters, your engine is "making oil". It is either getting fuel, coolant or sea water into the oil. Coolant or sea water are readily apparent because the oil will be milky, but fuel will just dilute the oil and it won't have the milkshake appearance.

Most likely you have fuel dilution occurring, and as mentioned, this can come from a leak in the lift pump or the high pressure injection pump, as both can leak into the crankcase. If someone "rebuilt" the injection pump, that might be a fruitful place to look first. It's also possible to have fuel wash down from a bad injector, but that's unlikely if the engine is running well.

Your 2040 engine is based on the Perkins/ISM 103-15 series engine. This is in the same family as the Perkins M30, but the M30 displaces .95 liters and the 2040 displaces 1.5 liters.

DougR
All true. I sent the link for the M30 because it was easy to find. Also true - if the return line from the injection pump is blocked or plugged the fuel that is supposed to be returned to the tank can cause a pressure build-up in the injection pump, causing the excess fuel to escape past the seal into the crankcase. Since there is another engine nearby this would be easy to compare.
__________________
Some of what you might have heard may be true.
guyfromiowa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2016, 08:11   #7
Registered User
 
leftbrainstuff's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Francisco and Australia
Boat: Liberty 458
Posts: 1,979
Re: Volvo Penta Rebuild Woes - Any Ideas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by guyfromiowa View Post
Others will come along to help, I'm sure, but this will get you started.

This is a link to a .pdf of the Perkins Perama M30, the engine that your 2040 is based upon.


http://wilfredmacdonald.com/parts/perkins.pdf

Look at the 'fuel feed pump', also called the lift pump on 4-18.




You probably have one like the left image.

This pump has a diaphragm that is used to pump fuel from the fuel tank to the injection pump. When this diaphragm is punctured diesel fuel can be pumped into the crankcase of the engine. This will count for the 'over-full' level and when the lube oil is diluted by diesel fuel the viscosity is reduced. The diesel fuel 'thins out' the lube oil in the crankcase.

This engine is used in lots of shore-side applications, generators, pumps, forklifts, lots of places. Look for a place that sells Perkins industrial/agricultural parts.

Check for bearing damage by looking for any metal particles inside the 'can' of the oil filter. Take the filter off the engine and puncture the filter by driving a punch downward through the center opening where the filter screws on to the engine. Catch the oil the drains out of the filter in a shop towel. Any metal shards in the oil filter mean that you have damaged the bearings. No fragments? Fill the engine with new oil, put on the new filter and lift pump, go sailing.

Good luck
Good advice.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
leftbrainstuff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2016, 13:53   #8
Registered User

Join Date: May 2010
Location: St Pete FL
Boat: 1972 Contest 33
Posts: 783
Re: Volvo Penta Rebuild Woes - Any Ideas?

If you have diesel in the oil you should be able to smell it. You know what diesel smells like already I am guessing. Also if water get's into it oil will become milky in color. Coolant should change it as well.
Sounds like a simple fix. Just change out the diaphram in the pump and get back to motoring if that is truly the only problem.
__________________
Auto pilot is saying get up here and grab the tiller.
w1651 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2016, 16:54   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Miami
Boat: Wauquiez Pretorian 35
Posts: 209
Re: Volvo Penta Rebuild Woes - Any Ideas?

For those of us living in Miami with Volvo engines, how about telling us who rebuilt yours so we can avoid them?
__________________
Roniszoro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2016, 23:05   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Auckland, NZ
Boat: Compass 790 , 7.9 metres or 26 ft
Posts: 248
Re: Volvo Penta Rebuild Woes - Any Ideas?

Yep agree with all the other posts re lift pump diaphragm most likely cause. Reason your oil pressure alarm is going off is viscosity is dropping. You'll get accelerated engine wear obviously. Bet they charged you plenty to not fix it properly. Still I wasnt there as sometimes the mechanic gets a budget & doesnt have time for proper diagnosis but if it was a "just fix it basis" you should out the firm IMO
__________________
Compass790 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-02-2016, 02:03   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: the Med
Boat: Nauta 54' by Scott Kaufman/S&S - 1989
Posts: 1,066
Images: 3
Re: Volvo Penta Rebuild Woes - Any Ideas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roniszoro View Post
For those of us living in Miami with Volvo engines, how about telling us who rebuilt yours so we can avoid them?
An absolute must, morally.

I hope the "rules" in here (CF) may allow for it !!

Marine mechanics have a reputation for being the worst...in general, possibly because they happen to be there (positional advantage) and engines hardly walk inshore :-)

BTW, I may accept oil leaking thru gaskets, segments, dysfunctional O-rings, but NOT AT ALL thru the fuel pump itself.

It is an unacceptable flaw in the design which, as a mechanical.eng. myself, I wouldn't tolerate at all even in a cheap design.
It casts a very negative light on the once acclaimed perkins-volvo family (of tractors...)


No good... no good... no good at all
__________________
TheThunderbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-02-2016, 19:15   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Upper right-hand corner of Iowa
Boat: Newport 30 MK III
Posts: 57
Images: 5
Re: Volvo Penta Rebuild Woes - Any Ideas?

Two things to take note...
1. The original poster hasn't been back to tell us what he found. Maybe he's just out sailing around the Bahamas.
B. This is an idiotic design. A very common idiotic design that has failed in many applications. Why did they keep building pumps this way? They're cheap, easy to build and acceptably reliable. But, yes, they do fail sometimes. Frequently the failure leads to an external leak, occasionally to an internal leak of fuel into the crankcase and sometimes they leak both ways. I've been fixing engines for almost 50 years. Seen this failure on many brands and many models.

Guy
__________________
Some of what you might have heard may be true.
guyfromiowa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-02-2016, 19:44   #13
Sponsoring Vendor
 
Tellie's Avatar

Community Sponsor

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hollywood, Fl.
Boat: FP Athena 38' Poerava
Posts: 3,046
Re: Volvo Penta Rebuild Woes - Any Ideas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheThunderbird View Post
An absolute must, morally.

I hope the "rules" in here (CF) may allow for it !!

Marine mechanics have a reputation for being the worst...in general, possibly because they happen to be there (positional advantage) and engines hardly walk inshore :-)

BTW, I may accept oil leaking thru gaskets, segments, dysfunctional O-rings, but NOT AT ALL thru the fuel pump itself.

It is an unacceptable flaw in the design which, as a mechanical.eng. myself, I wouldn't tolerate at all even in a cheap design.
It casts a very negative light on the once acclaimed perkins-volvo family (of tractors...)




No good... no good... no good at all

I'm not sure the rules do allow it for good reason, and very careful CF moderation is important. There is always two sides to every story. While this is no implication at all towards the OP and his personal circumstance and experience, these things can go south faster than an anchor or gun thread.
Tellie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-02-2016, 05:25   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Miami
Boat: Wauquiez Pretorian 35
Posts: 209
Re: Volvo Penta Rebuild Woes - Any Ideas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tellie View Post
I'm not sure the rules do allow it for good reason, and very careful CF moderation is important. There is always two sides to every story. While this is no implication at all towards the OP and his personal circumstance and experience, these things can go south faster than an anchor or gun thread.
So the poor OP is stuck in Bimini, not know as the world's center for diesel mechanics, because of what he believes is a failure of an expensive repair/rebuild by a mechanic in Florida. He quite naturally turns to CF members for help as many of us have over the years. (Many of us also provide help when we can.) But if the OP does not give those of us who would have engine work done in Florida fair warning as to who did the work in what appears to be a less than competent manner, what is the morality of asking the questions? It would be: "I want help from you guys but I won't help you avoid my plight." Not the right thing to do.

Fortunately there was not physical danger to the OP and his crew as a result of his failed engine experience. But there certainly could have been had the engine failed while trying to get through one of the cuts to the Abacos from the East.
__________________
Roniszoro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-02-2016, 05:43   #15
Moderator
 
HappyMdRSailor's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: North Mississippi
Boat: 48 Wauquiez Pilot Saloon-C22 Chrysler Sunpiper- 19 Potter-Preparing to cruise w/my girl
Posts: 5,980
Re: Volvo Penta Rebuild Woes - Any Ideas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Be very careful with fuel in the oil, besides the obvious lack of lubrication, the dilution can get so bad that the engine begins consuming it's oil supply as fuel and it will "run away" and the only way to stop it is to cut off the air supply.
A run away Diesel is a scary thing.
a64,

Was hoping somebody mentioned this... Was going to be my first post before moving on to the solution...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheThunderbird View Post

BTW, I may accept oil leaking thru gaskets, segments, dysfunctional O-rings, but NOT AT ALL thru the fuel pump itself.

It is an unacceptable flaw in the design which, as a mechanical.eng. myself, I wouldn't tolerate at all even in a cheap design.
It casts a very negative light on the once acclaimed perkins-volvo family (of tractors...)
TTB

See "B" below... My experience exactly... Not a perkins OR volvo thing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by guyfromiowa View Post
Two things to take note...
1. The original poster hasn't been back to tell us what he found. Maybe he's just out sailing around the Bahamas.
B. This is an idiotic design. A very common idiotic design that has failed in many applications. Why did they keep building pumps this way? They're cheap, easy to build and acceptably reliable. But, yes, they do fail sometimes. Frequently the failure leads to an external leak, occasionally to an internal leak of fuel into the crankcase and sometimes they leak both ways. I've been fixing engines for almost 50 years. Seen this failure on many brands and many models.

Guy
Hope 1 is true...

And unfortunatley "B" has been proven to be true... over and over and ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tellie View Post
I'm not sure the rules do allow it for good reason, and very careful CF moderation is important. There is always two sides to every story. While this is no implication at all towards the OP and his personal circumstance and experience, these things can go south faster than an anchor or gun thread.
Tellie... I thought the WM biz was doin' good? You moonlighting as a VP mech????
__________________

__________________
In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair...

Mai Tai's fix everything...
HappyMdRSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
penta, rebuild, volvo

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Any info on a Volvo Penta MD17D most welcome Free as a Bird Engines and Propulsion Systems 11 11-08-2014 13:26
Volvo penta 2003 T rebuild Rustic Charm Engines and Propulsion Systems 2 27-03-2014 04:56
Content Ideas for a Broker's Website - Ideas Wanted! David_Old_Jersey Dollars & Cents 69 02-11-2012 10:56
Want To Buy: Volvo Penta MD2030 Exhaust Riser, any cond. fareweather Classifieds Archive 6 15-06-2012 08:53
Cost of Rebuild for a Volvo Penta MD-17C? SabreKai Engines and Propulsion Systems 1 11-11-2008 19:35



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:55.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.