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Old 28-02-2012, 09:35   #16
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Re: Volvo Penta Diesel starting problem

It would seem that having a professional come down for a compression test and injection pump/injector inspection would be a good idea as any negatives would give a reason to adjust the price to account for the necessary service.

In the past when away from the trappings of civilization, I have found that if one removes the air cleaner and shoots a couple shots of lube oil from a squeeze oil can into the intakes, the oil will seal the rings/valves and raise the compression enough to do a start if decreasing compression is the issue. If fuel is the issue and the quick start method with the engine stop cable which IIRC gives the engine full fuel until the centrifugal governor kicks it out does not work, try shooting some fuel into the intake from your other oil can. Lift pumps do degrade and injection pumps develop air leaks and that is a concern if your fuel tanks are not gravity fed. Alternately, using a remote fuel source which is gravity fed can show if this is the issue. Check those filters, too. Use of any starting fluid is not recommended as it strips the upper cylinder lubrication and increases the rate of wear of especially the valve seats. Excessive exhaust back pressure is also an issue to consider as a carbon build up or rust will inhibit starting. This can be a common problem in small engine compartments as hard turns exacerbate this issue. Not running the engine long enough to get to operating temperature is a frequent cause of exhaust problems especially on raw water cooled engines as they generally have colder thermostats.

Depending on the number of hours on your engine will give an idea if a compression problem is a valve or piston ring problem. A valve job is pretty straight forward on most smaller diesels and many folks do them themselves if there is room to pull the head(s). Usually a ring job requires removing the engine. Also to consider, depending on the number of engine hours, is whether the injectors need service as many manufacturers suggest 500 hour service. If you have dribbly injectors the fuel will not combust correctly at pressure causing starting problems and you get dirty exhaust with carbon buildup.

Good luck, they can be great little engines.....
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Old 04-04-2015, 11:15   #17
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Re: Volvo Penta Diesel Starting Problem

any advice on how to tune the cold start? it is correct that there are no glow plugs and the cold start is operated by pulling out the engine stop as well as giving it full throttle, but is there a method if tuning this? thanks i have just rebuilt the engine because of bad starting, i was told that it was due to low compression and its no better! the compression is good, the fuel system is good, the batteries are good, what now, it is a pain to start when hot if you dont pull the engine stop out first.
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Old 04-04-2015, 15:56   #18
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Re: Volvo Penta Diesel Starting Problem

Lots of good info here about the 2000 series VP engines, so just a couple of comments:
- the "cold start" function is, as mentioned, a means of both increasing the amount of fuel injected during starting, and it also retards the injection timing so that injection occurs closer to TDC. This makes the injection happen when the temperature in the cylinder is at its highest, helping to ignite the fuel spray. When using the cold start function, open the throttle about 1/2 before pulling the stop lever out and pushing it back in. The cold start system cannot be tuned.

- The 2000 series were direct injection engines, therefore no glow plugs. There was one low production version that was an indirect injection version developed specifically for the Swiss lakes, but never imported into N. America.

- servicing the injectors and adjusting the valves are normal items that should be checked.

- two other things that should be checked:
1. The 2000 series used individual injection pumps, one per cylinder. The fuel flow went from the fine filter to the first pump, then to the second pump, etc. Between the pumps were hoses and banjo bolts with washers. The fuel left the last pump and returned to the tank via a special banjo bolt with a restrictor in it. The head of this bolt was stamped "out" and it has to be located in the outlet of the last pump in the line so that fuel pressure builds and gives a good plunger fill in all of the pumps. An incorrectly placed restrictor bolt can give starting and low RPM problems.
2. When the fuel leaves the last fuel pump and returns to the tank, the possibility exists that upon engine shutdown and lengthy sitting the fuel can drain out of the return line and all of the injection pumps. This shows up as difficult starting after the engine has been sitting awhile, because the lift pump has to fill all of the injection pumps and lines between them before any fuel goes to the injectors. This can happen if the fuel tank is level with or below the engine return line. This was the subject of a VP service bulletin years ago.

There are two ways to solve this last problem:
1. Place a standpipe in the tank on the return side of the fuel system so that the fuel always returns below the fuel surface in the tank. This will prevent the draining and also avoids fuel aireation.
2. Place a "goose neck" rise in the return fuel line between the engine and the tank so that only fuel downstream of the rise can drain to the tank when the engine is off.

DougR
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Old 04-04-2015, 16:11   #19
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Re: Volvo Penta Diesel Starting Problem

Thanks DougR, i was messing about with it today and after i eventually got it started it would not start from warm without pulling the stop out first. it also ran for a minute or less and then stopped several times like it was running out of fuel, the reves increased by themselves and then stalled, even if you tried to give it more gas it stopped. it was like there was fuel starvation. i changed the fuel filter and tried it several times again and it stopped doing this. i am going to try it tomorrow from cold again to see what happens.
The pick up of revs is very slow and there is a lot of diesel knock before it picks up on hard throttle, after you back off it runs fine at highish revs and is quiet. i was wondering if the injection timing was out? if so how do you adjust it? adding shims under the injector pumps i presume.
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Old 04-04-2015, 16:20   #20
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Re: Volvo Penta Diesel Starting Problem

Yes, timing is changed by shimming the individual injection pumps.
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Old 04-04-2015, 16:25   #21
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Re: Volvo Penta Diesel Starting Problem

any idea which way it goes if you add shims? advance or retard? i presume it will retard the
injection so it will inject closer to tdc which might stop the knock but will it help the starting?
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Old 04-04-2015, 20:18   #22
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Re: Volvo Penta Diesel Starting Problem

If you remove shims, the timing advances, and if you add shims, the timing retards.

I would recommend that you don't randomly adjust the timing if there isn't any reason to think the timing has been changed. I think it's likely to be more productive checking the other items in the thread.

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Old 02-05-2015, 01:40   #23
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Re: Volvo Penta Diesel Starting Problem

ptc260... I acquired a 2000 series diesel last year of 1989 vintage; it is the three cylinder 28 Hp version. It has 4,159 hours on it. I finally got is running on Feb 24 this year and it has been quite a learning process.

It is correct that the 2000 series did not have glow plugs.

It is important to follow the cold start procedure. described by Weyalan. pull out the engine-stop cable and push it back in again (as if you were stopping the engine) I have been told that this resets a governor and increases the fuel delivery to the cylinders. I have also read that this information is included in manuals sold in Europe but not in the USA.

However I could crank it until the battery went dead and all I got was smoke. The real success in my case came after pulling the injectors. and having them rebuilt. that cost me $405 CND plus local purchase tax. The key point to remember is that the entire fuel system on these engines are made by Bosch. so do not go to Volvo for this. I used the services of fred Holmes fuel injection. Home - Fred Holmes Fuel Injection

They instructed me to drain ALL the fluid out of the engine, and flood the recess around each of the injectors is penetrating fluid. I used liquid wrench but I know that there are better products than that. soaked for over 24 hours.

They loaned to me a small slide hammer they had made out of a long 1/2" bolt. that had an old fuel union nut held on the end of the rod with a screw. undo the clamps. then unscrew the fuel lines and then screw the the old union nut on the slide hammer on to the end of the injector. a few taps and each one extracted. they are only pushed in there is not any screw thread

the Injectors are seated in copper cups that are surrounded by coolant IF you dislodge either of these they will have to be replaced and this I have been told requires a service tool. Thus IF you did not drain the engine the cylider would flood with coolant.

At the workshop they put each injector on their test bed and pumped fuel through it. The first two spurted streams of fuel in a cross. The third one also spurted a cross but also a minimum amount of mist. All the tips were burnt and had to be scrapped. New replacements had to be flown in from Quebec. After rebuilding: all three injectors sprayed a fine mist'

Back at my workshop after reinstalling them in the engine, The key issue was to use the hand pump to purge the lines with air. The Farmer showed me how to do this.
This engine at some point had been sitting in one foot of water long enough to leave a rust line on the flywheel and had not run in five years. It started right up. It might start by hand cranking. Runs fine and responds to the throttle perfectly.

I have also been told that spraying starter fluid; (especially too much) into the air intake can cause a cylinder to fire out of sequence and break the crank because you are bypassing the timing of the valves and the injector pumps.

For the record this is the first diesel engine I have ever owned, Thus I am not an expert...This is just a description of my learning curve + what I have experienced in getting it running...

BTW...Very important. have the transmission pulled as part of your marine survey and check the condition of the 20 tooth spine on the input shaft. It might be pounded out they are very prone to failure. Not so common with sail drives though if they have a feathering prop.
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