Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 09-10-2008, 12:47   #46
Senior Cruiser
 
Alan Wheeler's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Marlborough Sounds. New Zealand
Boat: Hartley Tahitian 45ft. Leisure Lady
Posts: 8,038
Images: 102
Yes thank-you Paul. It is a real annoyance to me, the advertising you hear about getting $3 dollars of heat from $1 of input. It is simply not true and false advertising. And usually found out when the first power bill of the month arrives. It's HOW MUCH!!!!
__________________

__________________
Wheels

For God so loved the world..........He didn't send a committee.
Alan Wheeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2008, 14:09   #47
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,571
Images: 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pblais View Post
Even that is not always true. It depends on the temperature difference between how cold it is and how much heat is gained. At low temperatures a heat pump fails to deliver affordable heat. That being the case it would better to say that a heat pump can be 3 times more cost effective under perfect circumstances.
In heat pump terminology, the difference (Delta T) between the temperatures where the heat is extracted (the air or ground/Water 'source'), and the temperature where the heat is delivered (the 'sink' - the boat cabin or HWT); is called the “lift.”

The smaller the lift, the higher the efficiency will be.

Ideally, the heat source should be as warm and stable as possible during the heating season, and the heat sink as cool as possible during the cooling season (thus minimizing the Delta T).

That being the case, it would better to say, that a heat pump can be 3 (or more) times more cost effective under less extreme circumstances, in which less heat transfer is required.

Thus, a Heat Pump makes excellent sense in a milder heating climate.
__________________

__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2008, 00:27   #48
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Oz
Boat: Jarcat 5, 5m, Mandy
Posts: 419
This thread has drifted slightly but still interesting. If you want to get the most out of a heat pump you try to organise some place where heat is stored. You can simply dig a deep hole and use the more stable temperatures deep down. In summer you slightly heat it while you are cooling yourself and in winter you will be slight cooling it while you are warming yourself. If you don't have access to an underground system, you ca store in phase change material in an insulated container or if you have the space, in a big insulated water tank.
__________________
Robertcateran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2008, 05:03   #49
Registered User
 
Jackstee's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Presently liveing and working in Pakistan
Boat: HT 26. Currently in Mallorca
Posts: 98
Actually you can buy these fuel cells in UK and France. On my last check they were only around 2 kw and run off ethanol or something.
They are trying to make on that runs off bottled gas.
Aparently they are trying to get more efficiant ways to have electricity on board without using gen sets or none electrical motors.They are the size of a small suitcase..
Cost, around 15 thousand pounds each at the moment.
Although they bench run ok, they actually took one on a ralley and unfortunately it broke down after a few days. But it was apparently very good in providing all the electricity for fridges, tv's etc without using main engines .

Steve
__________________
I'll be onboard soon.
Jackstee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2008, 08:23   #50
Senior Cruiser
 
Talbot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Brighton, UK
Boat: Privilege 37
Posts: 3,579
Images: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackstee View Post
Actually you can buy these fuel cells in UK and France. On my last check they were only around 2 kw and run off ethanol or something.Steve
These have the same concept, but are different chemically, and are expensive, but easy to make. They are also significantly less powerfull than the hydrogen fuel cell.

The hydrogen fuel cell has also been around for some time. The problem is the powering of it. Research has proven that the most efficient way to do this is the cracking of diesel to access the hydrogen. What has not been achieved yet is the miniturisation of that process.
__________________
"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and miss."
Robert A Heinlein
Talbot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2009, 08:25   #51
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Boat: Former Life-Boat. 30ft.
Posts: 4
Send a message via Skype™ to Dennis Sol
Hydrogen Commerce - HYDROGEN SHIPS & SUBS
__________________
Rebuilding a life-boat to a canal cruiser: http://reddingsboot.blogspot.com
Dennis Sol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2009, 09:23   #52
Registered User
 
bene505's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NOT on Long Island - Look elsewhere! :-)
Boat: Beneteau 50
Posts: 453
A fuel cell that makes hydrogen would be a great dump load for your wind generator and solar. On windy days you would make fuel for your hydrogen-powerd dinghy.
__________________
bene505 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2009, 10:29   #53
Eternal Member
 
Chief Engineer's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: North of Baltimore
Boat: Ericson 27 & 18' Herrmann Catboat
Posts: 3,798
Sometimes I think the minimalist sailors are on to something.
__________________
Chief Engineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2009, 11:31   #54
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,022
"A fuel cell that makes hydrogen would be a great dump load for your wind generator"
You just wire the genset to a pressure tank filled with salt water via two carbon rods, and let it split the water into H+O. How and what you choose to do with it, is your option, but hydroxygen generation afloat is old mature technology.
__________________

__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
consumption, fuel, fuel cell

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
fuel consumption xort Monohull Sailboats 51 02-02-2012 06:52
Fuel cell powered sailboats? Amgine Propellers & Drive Systems 7 14-09-2007 20:43
European Fuel Cell Propulsion Project. speedoo Engines and Propulsion Systems 1 13-09-2006 13:07
Max Power Marine Fuel Cell CaptainK Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 6 20-05-2006 17:06
Worlds first marine fuel cell- Ram Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 21 18-02-2006 05:54



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 17:30.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.